Sharkscope is banned on Pokerstars.
However, they do not enforce the ban. For awhile they warned users via email, but they got too many complaints and bad press about it (mostly on 2p2 and via email) so they stopped doing that. They still say you cannot use it on their site, however there is no punishment for doing so. They are currently looking at ways to limit Sharkscope's ability to datamine hands on their site.
Sharkscope is allowed on Full Tilt last I checked. There was some confusion recently about this because Full Tilt outlawed the use of the Sharkscope HUD (heads up display), but I'm pretty sure it is ok to use sharkscope's search database function on Full Tilt at this time (ironically, full tilt advertises on Sharkscope).
Our policy on husng.com is to follow the rules of the sites to the best of our abilities. Therefore, we are trying to avoid using sharkscope in our pokerstars videos.
There are some exceptions.
First, I did not mention this to Croixdawg in his original videos. His future videos should reflect that policy.
Second, I did not mention this to Hokiegreg, his future guest videos shoudl reflect our policy.
Now, I would not discourage a friend from using Sharkscope on Pokerstars, as I personally believe as long as live MTT and online MTT results are allowed to be published, so should heads up sit n go results. I also feel that Stars should continue to warn and chat ban people that berate losing players about their statistics. I recognize that my opinion is not necessarily fool proof or completely error free, but I believe it is much better than disallowing information from the masses. Many cheating players have been caught via users searching sharkscope stats to find anomolies and outright cheats.
Back to husng.com policy though, we will try to follow the policy of sites such as PokerStars and Full Tilt as best we can. That means we will try to avoid using sharkscope in our videos on Stars. If it ends up being used once in a great while I think that is something we can live with.
Feel free to weigh in on your own thoughts everybody, but that sums up my thoughts and husng.com policy.
I asked FT support about this situation, and what they finally answered: "Hello WBR,
Thank you for contacting Full Tilt Poker Support.
While the response you received earlier is not entirely accurate, even though Sharkscope.com's database is not based on collected hand histories, it is a shared database of tournament results.
Since it provides data based on tournaments in which you yourself did not participate, it is prohibited from use with Full Tilt Poker. Sharkscope.com is well aware that their service has already been banned by other leading poker sites.
We regret the earlier misunderstanding.
Sincerely,
Mike M
Operations Manager
Full Tilt Poker Support"
It was Feb 2nd.
That's bizarre, I read in the last 2 weeks on 2p2 that Sharkscope was allowed.
I'll ask xSCWx what he knows, I don't play on FTP regularly so I don't necessarily follow their policies, I do know they have had a few conflicting policies in the past however.
It strikes me as pretty insane that they would advertise their poker room on a website that they prohibit usage of. Then again, we're talking about a poker room run by a bunch of poker players, anything is possible ;)
I just read somewhere that the way pokerstars know people are using sharkscope is that when you download the poker client, a add-on is put on internet explorer, allowing them to see what sites you visit when you have the client open. Apparrently, there is no such add-on for firefox, which is why some people have not been warned about using sharkscope.
Does anyone know if this is true? It sounds plausible I suppose, but, although I don't use IE I kind of feel that this is an invasion of privacy, especially as I was not made aware that they do this.
Stars was previously warning people about sharkscope but since they received such a backlash from the community about this they stopped issuing warnings when detecting users that used sharkscope.
As far as I know this has been their policy for a few months and they won't be changing it anytime soon.
In short, you aren't allowed to use it but they will do nothing about it if you do. I think it's similar to non priority drug laws in some cities/countries where cops actually don't arrest you for say having a small amount of marijuana (I believe London does or did this for some time), they just take it and throw it away/destroy it. Their reasoning for this was that there are many worse drugs that they need to crack down on (and crimes) so it's a waste of resources for something of such little harm.
I would if I played on FTP regularly.
They advertise on Sharkscope, FTPdoug said nobody will be punished for using Sharkscope's search feature, and they've sent mixed signals at various times contradicting themselvs on their policy.
All of that is more than enough for me to conclude that using Sharkscope on their site is fine.
If they started banning people, locking their accounts or doing something like that, it would probably be such a negative factor to all of this that I would definitely reconsider using it on FTP.
That's my personal stance, anyways.
RyPac, plz can u give a link or smth with such an info, coz me, like WBR, messaged to FTP suppot, and they told me hat Sharscope is prohibited ot smth like that, The main reason for me to ask that so carefully, coz i dun want to be the first banned for searchin on it =)
Mb u or any of ur cozchescan help with some insdie info, coz u r known on 2+2 forum
Thank u
Here's a post from FTP Doug in January:
"
Originally Posted by FTPDoug
3. Fulltilt needs to be more explicit about what is or isn't allowed, so that no player gets their account locked or funds frozen for engaging in activities (either datamining or looking at Sharkscope or Tableratings) that they didn't know was against the rules.
- I realize the current situation with datamining is a little confusing, mostly because it's currently very easy to do it. It's worth noting that our standard operating procedure for this kind of rule breaking is to first issue a warning. Collecting hands you didn't participate in isn't as serious a "poker crime" as, say, collusion, and they aren't treated equally. So if you're worried that your account will be locked and your funds confiscated just because you datamined for a while, that won't happen.
Having said that, we strongly discourage the practice and will very likely someday put actual software features in place that will curtail it. I'm pretty sure we've heard all of the arguments for and against it, and we want to make sure we can confidently address them all before taking a harder line.
Sharkscope and Tableratings would fall into the same category of "strong discouragement" but not something that will get your account locked and funds seized."
-----
Now, I believe Sharkscope doesn't actually collect these hands any longer, they just collect the results. This would appear to make them not covered under the following rule:
The use of shared hand history databases is prohibited
Players may not use databases that include hand histories from hands that they did not personally participate in. This includes large subscription databases, and "hand swapping" with other players. Players who use such databases are deemed to be gaining an unfair advantage over their opponents and will have their accounts closed permanently. Any outstanding balance in their account will be forfeited and used to compensate the victims.
Database programs that track information from a player's personal hand history (i.e. hands in which they have been dealt cards) are permitted.
Now, if Sharkscope does not collect hand histories, rather just tournament results, it may be allowed.
I've messaged a FTP support representative to get some clarification here, as well as a person with Sharkscope. As soon as I get some responses I will share them with you guys.
Also note, I am not referring to the Sharkscope HUD. It seems clear to me that this is banned from use on Full Tilt and that view was reinforced as recently as March 6th when FTPdoug responded to a Sharkscope "yes or no" question with the answer "Sharkscope HUD is not allowed on our site." He did not mention the search function or anything like that.
Here's what Sharkscope replied with:
"
Hi Ryan ,
I'm afraid this is not a question we can really answer. We have always attempted to ensure all our functionality is allowed on FullTilt based on their rules listed here: http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/prohibited_programs.php
and you will see they specifically do not allow programs that use shared hand histories. SharkScope does not contain any hand history information, only tournament results. Therefore we should be allowed.
Unfortunately recently Full Tilt customer support has begun responding with a different set of rules, saying that all tournament result databases are not allowed. They have never contacted us to tell us of this change, the official prohibited programs page has not been updated, and they appear to also be happily advertising on all other services that break these "customer support" rules such as thePokerDB and Official Poker Rankings.
So I'm afraid we can't shed any light on the situation. However most importantly no player has ever had action taken against them for using SharkScope or the SharksScope HUD on Full Tilt or for using other tournament results tracking service, unless it was in an abusive manner.
Best Wishes,
Isabella,
SharkScope Support
---------
On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Ryan wrote:
Hey,
A lot of users on my site ( husng.com
) have been asking me if they can use your service while playing on Full Tilt. From what I can tell FTP is saying that it is not allowed to search on sharkscope while logged in at any time on their site. Is this accurate?
As a follow up, if they are not allowing users to use Sharkscope, why are they advertising on your site? Maybe that's a question best asked to them, but their support is so poor and inconsistent.
Yea, nothing yet.
I feel like FTP doesn't want to give an official answer here to be honest. They'd rather play the gray area in between "allowed" and "not allowed."
SharkScope is completely prohibited on FTP and using it violates the Site Terms.
I hope that clears things up.
Sean"
I responded asking why they advertise on Sharkscope if the site is completely prohibited. I don't really expect much of a response to that. I'll ask another FTP representative about Sharkscope not using HHs for their database and if that makes them legal/allowed.
For the time being, be very wary of using sharkscope on FTP. I would not expect your funds to be taken or account frozen, at least not permanently, but if you want to avoid any hassles I would just avoid using it. If you do use it and wind up getting into trouble, please email me ASAP and I will work towards helping you through your troubles. If attacked the correct way, you will almost certainly never end up with any negative results for using Sharkscope on FTP.
Sharkscope is banned on Pokerstars.
However, they do not enforce the ban. For awhile they warned users via email, but they got too many complaints and bad press about it (mostly on 2p2 and via email) so they stopped doing that. They still say you cannot use it on their site, however there is no punishment for doing so. They are currently looking at ways to limit Sharkscope's ability to datamine hands on their site.
Sharkscope is allowed on Full Tilt last I checked. There was some confusion recently about this because Full Tilt outlawed the use of the Sharkscope HUD (heads up display), but I'm pretty sure it is ok to use sharkscope's search database function on Full Tilt at this time (ironically, full tilt advertises on Sharkscope).
Our policy on husng.com is to follow the rules of the sites to the best of our abilities. Therefore, we are trying to avoid using sharkscope in our pokerstars videos.
There are some exceptions.
First, I did not mention this to Croixdawg in his original videos. His future videos should reflect that policy.
Second, I did not mention this to Hokiegreg, his future guest videos shoudl reflect our policy.
Now, I would not discourage a friend from using Sharkscope on Pokerstars, as I personally believe as long as live MTT and online MTT results are allowed to be published, so should heads up sit n go results. I also feel that Stars should continue to warn and chat ban people that berate losing players about their statistics. I recognize that my opinion is not necessarily fool proof or completely error free, but I believe it is much better than disallowing information from the masses. Many cheating players have been caught via users searching sharkscope stats to find anomolies and outright cheats.
Back to husng.com policy though, we will try to follow the policy of sites such as PokerStars and Full Tilt as best we can. That means we will try to avoid using sharkscope in our videos on Stars. If it ends up being used once in a great while I think that is something we can live with.
Feel free to weigh in on your own thoughts everybody, but that sums up my thoughts and husng.com policy.
I asked FT support about this situation, and what they finally answered:
"Hello WBR,
Thank you for contacting Full Tilt Poker Support.
While the response you received earlier is not entirely accurate, even though Sharkscope.com's database is not based on collected hand histories, it is a shared database of tournament results.
Since it provides data based on tournaments in which you yourself did not participate, it is prohibited from use with Full Tilt Poker. Sharkscope.com is well aware that their service has already been banned by other leading poker sites.
We regret the earlier misunderstanding.
Sincerely,
Mike M
Operations Manager
Full Tilt Poker Support"
It was Feb 2nd.
That's bizarre, I read in the last 2 weeks on 2p2 that Sharkscope was allowed.
I'll ask xSCWx what he knows, I don't play on FTP regularly so I don't necessarily follow their policies, I do know they have had a few conflicting policies in the past however.
It strikes me as pretty insane that they would advertise their poker room on a website that they prohibit usage of. Then again, we're talking about a poker room run by a bunch of poker players, anything is possible ;)
I wonder if they'll ban people for using FishScope.
__________________________
Goats!!! MORE GOATS!!!
I just read somewhere that the way pokerstars know people are using sharkscope is that when you download the poker client, a add-on is put on internet explorer, allowing them to see what sites you visit when you have the client open. Apparrently, there is no such add-on for firefox, which is why some people have not been warned about using sharkscope.
Does anyone know if this is true? It sounds plausible I suppose, but, although I don't use IE I kind of feel that this is an invasion of privacy, especially as I was not made aware that they do this.
Stars was previously warning people about sharkscope but since they received such a backlash from the community about this they stopped issuing warnings when detecting users that used sharkscope.
As far as I know this has been their policy for a few months and they won't be changing it anytime soon.
In short, you aren't allowed to use it but they will do nothing about it if you do. I think it's similar to non priority drug laws in some cities/countries where cops actually don't arrest you for say having a small amount of marijuana (I believe London does or did this for some time), they just take it and throw it away/destroy it. Their reasoning for this was that there are many worse drugs that they need to crack down on (and crimes) so it's a waste of resources for something of such little harm.
So anybody use Sharkscope on FT or not?
I have it but use only when clinet doesnt work
I would if I played on FTP regularly.
They advertise on Sharkscope, FTPdoug said nobody will be punished for using Sharkscope's search feature, and they've sent mixed signals at various times contradicting themselvs on their policy.
All of that is more than enough for me to conclude that using Sharkscope on their site is fine.
If they started banning people, locking their accounts or doing something like that, it would probably be such a negative factor to all of this that I would definitely reconsider using it on FTP.
That's my personal stance, anyways.
RyPac, plz can u give a link or smth with such an info, coz me, like WBR, messaged to FTP suppot, and they told me hat Sharscope is prohibited ot smth like that, The main reason for me to ask that so carefully, coz i dun want to be the first banned for searchin on it =)
Mb u or any of ur cozchescan help with some insdie info, coz u r known on 2+2 forum
Thank u
Here's a post from FTP Doug in January:
"
Originally Posted by FTPDoug
3. Fulltilt needs to be more explicit about what is or isn't allowed, so that no player gets their account locked or funds frozen for engaging in activities (either datamining or looking at Sharkscope or Tableratings) that they didn't know was against the rules.
- I realize the current situation with datamining is a little confusing, mostly because it's currently very easy to do it. It's worth noting that our standard operating procedure for this kind of rule breaking is to first issue a warning. Collecting hands you didn't participate in isn't as serious a "poker crime" as, say, collusion, and they aren't treated equally. So if you're worried that your account will be locked and your funds confiscated just because you datamined for a while, that won't happen.
Having said that, we strongly discourage the practice and will very likely someday put actual software features in place that will curtail it. I'm pretty sure we've heard all of the arguments for and against it, and we want to make sure we can confidently address them all before taking a harder line.
Sharkscope and Tableratings would fall into the same category of "strong discouragement" but not something that will get your account locked and funds seized."
-----
Now, I believe Sharkscope doesn't actually collect these hands any longer, they just collect the results. This would appear to make them not covered under the following rule:
The use of shared hand history databases is prohibited
Players may not use databases that include hand histories from hands that they did not personally participate in. This includes large subscription databases, and "hand swapping" with other players. Players who use such databases are deemed to be gaining an unfair advantage over their opponents and will have their accounts closed permanently. Any outstanding balance in their account will be forfeited and used to compensate the victims.
Database programs that track information from a player's personal hand history (i.e. hands in which they have been dealt cards) are permitted.
Now, if Sharkscope does not collect hand histories, rather just tournament results, it may be allowed.
I've messaged a FTP support representative to get some clarification here, as well as a person with Sharkscope. As soon as I get some responses I will share them with you guys.
Also note, I am not referring to the Sharkscope HUD. It seems clear to me that this is banned from use on Full Tilt and that view was reinforced as recently as March 6th when FTPdoug responded to a Sharkscope "yes or no" question with the answer "Sharkscope HUD is not allowed on our site." He did not mention the search function or anything like that.
Here's what Sharkscope replied with:
"
Hi Ryan ,
I'm afraid this is not a question we can really answer. We have always attempted to ensure all our functionality is allowed on FullTilt based on their rules listed here:
http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/prohibited_programs.php
and you will see they specifically do not allow programs that use shared hand histories. SharkScope does not contain any hand history information, only tournament results. Therefore we should be allowed.
Unfortunately recently Full Tilt customer support has begun responding with a different set of rules, saying that all tournament result databases are not allowed. They have never contacted us to tell us of this change, the official prohibited programs page has not been updated, and they appear to also be happily advertising on all other services that break these "customer support" rules such as thePokerDB and Official Poker Rankings.
So I'm afraid we can't shed any light on the situation. However most importantly no player has ever had action taken against them for using SharkScope or the SharksScope HUD on Full Tilt or for using other tournament results tracking service, unless it was in an abusive manner.
Best Wishes,
Isabella,
SharkScope Support
---------
On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Ryan wrote:
Hey,
A lot of users on my site (
husng.com
) have been asking me if they can use your service while playing on Full Tilt. From what I can tell FTP is saying that it is not allowed to search on sharkscope while logged in at any time on their site. Is this accurate?
As a follow up, if they are not allowing users to use Sharkscope, why are they advertising on your site? Maybe that's a question best asked to them, but their support is so poor and inconsistent.
Thank you,
Ryan
"
Thank uv ery much, but now we r w8ing for FTP answer=)
Thx
Yea, nothing yet.
I feel like FTP doesn't want to give an official answer here to be honest. They'd rather play the gray area in between "allowed" and "not allowed."
Clear update.
"Hey Ryan,
SharkScope is completely prohibited on FTP and using it violates the Site Terms.
I hope that clears things up.
Sean"
I responded asking why they advertise on Sharkscope if the site is completely prohibited. I don't really expect much of a response to that. I'll ask another FTP representative about Sharkscope not using HHs for their database and if that makes them legal/allowed.
For the time being, be very wary of using sharkscope on FTP. I would not expect your funds to be taken or account frozen, at least not permanently, but if you want to avoid any hassles I would just avoid using it. If you do use it and wind up getting into trouble, please email me ASAP and I will work towards helping you through your troubles. If attacked the correct way, you will almost certainly never end up with any negative results for using Sharkscope on FTP.