I start limping much more and tigthen my openingraise to 25-40% depending how much he 3bets while trying to see how loose he is peeling postflop and then you can take it from there.

PS: I hate christmas

I agree I would stop raising preflop so much, unless I had a made higher pocket pair. In my view, vs a player like this your hand has little value unless you hit a flop. When I hit a flop I would be overbetting slightly for value and just punish him on every street. Of course, I'd consider checking the river since he loves to half pot that.
If he started adjusting by slowing down on his calling station tendencies, I'd start incorporating bluffs more liberally. In the meantime, I'd just be looking to punish him for calling me too much.
Bluffs have little value vs a player like this so I wouldn't try it until I saw him folding to my punishing value bets.

- Stevenrh1

Well, maybe it's variance, but I lost *a lot* of money this weekend with exactly this adjustment against this player type.

In the end, I got so frustrated that I even started to believe that these guys are only losing players against fish - because their bluffs don't work against Callingstations - while the good player doesn't have a chance.  It's pure luck and you end up guessing what he has.

Tightening up your opening range doesn't help since you'd turn your hands into bluffs by doing that - or how do you wanna do it ?  Even 5x'ing your Aces won't help you, he'll call and then you have to give up to any sign of aggression on the flop.

It basically goes like this: you 5x with AA, he flats and then there are two things which may happen:

a) he mindonks into you -> you have to fold
b) he checks to you -> you take the pot with a minbet

It's just a guessing game against these guys.

What happens if he check/raises you five times in a row and then you decide to call with top pair - well all you can hope for is that he'll let you check it down, so you don't have to guess for your entire stack whether he's bluffing.

It's always the same with these guys - they make me fold a gazillion times and when I finally decide to make a stand and call them down, they show up with some ridiculous bottom two pair.  Whenever I tighten up my opening range they call with atc and only continue when they flop big.

The same happens at 25/50 - they open 3x every single hand, and the first time I shove they snap call and show me either AK or QQ+.

Oh, and I had a guy who raised to 1/2 stack every single time I limped and then *snapcalled* my shove with 46o - dropped 8 buy-ins in less than 2 minutes against him.

Well, I'm taking a break for at least two weeks from poker, not even sure whether I want to keep playing at the moment :-(

It just doesn't make any fun anymore and I keep losing and losing money, it's simply getting too expensive for me.  Each time I play perfectly against some idiot and then - within a few hands - variance turns it all against me.

And then these guys are laughing about he, calling me a fish for getting it in bad once again.

I also don't understand this all anymore - in theory, I should make money if they call two streets with any piece of the board, all I have to do is betting big each time I have top pair and they pay me off.

Problem is, they're not willing to put all their stack in with their weak holding - they either hit or bluff the river, where the pot is huge, and I have to guess for my entire stack whether they're bluffing or not.

Ok, I quit the tables for this year, gotta go pack my bags and drive to the airport.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year !

I would almost never fold my AA to a flop donk minlead unless I had some sick read!!

Against those loose guys;

1) Lower your cbet frequency.
2) Don't slowplay!! If they're passive, you do the betting.
3) Just because he called you 2 streets doesn't mean your TP isn't good!!
4) C/R more often with hands that have good EV for value.
5) Don't become impatient when you're cardead for a few hands!!
6) Widen your calling range.
7) Minrase/limp preflop to get to see more flops IP.

If you have a hand TP+, generally don't fold. You sometimes have to turn into a calling station to beat those bluffy loose guys ;)

Seat 3: Hero ($1,270 in chips)
Seat 8: edub***8 ($1,730 in chips) DEALER
edub***8: posts small blind 20
Hero: posts big blind 40
Dealt to Hero [Ac,Qd]
edub***8: raises to 120
Hero: calls 80
*** FLOP *** [Jc,6h,3s]
Hero: checks
edub***8: checks
*** TURN *** [6d]
Hero: checks
edub***8: checks
*** RIVER *** [Kd]
Hero: checks
edub***8: bets 240
Hero: calls 240
***SHOW DOWN***
edub***8: shows [7h 5h] (Pair of Sixes  )
Hero: shows [Ac Qd] (Pair of Sixes  )
Hero: wins 720 with Pair of Sixes with Ace  kicker

Don't give the loose guys too much credit. Don't give up jack!! If you're unsure how you'd act to a raise, or if he calls your turn cbet and then donks...then don't bet in the first place. Your bets should have a purpose (value/FE/semi-bluff), and you should think at least 1 street ahead and about his possible counter actions to your bet. If you KNOW he always donks river after calling 2 streets, that should factor in when you decide whether to cbet the flop/turn.

Yeah, it's really frustrating, especially when I'm feeling like they're exploiting me.

They seem to know that I'm betting strong hands for value, so they call, hit their miracle card and get my entire stack.  It just feels horrible to put the entire stack in drawing dead against these guys.

For instance a guy 3x'es every single button, I'm very tight oop and then 3bet him for the first time about 20 hands into the match with AA.  Flop comes 422, I bet half pot and he shoves.

And now I'm telling myself, it doesn't make any sense for him to shove trips here and it's also very unlikely that he's has any deuce in a reraised pot - and then he types something like "haha, can't fold aces fish" into the chat.

Another huge problem is when the guy is extremely passive and predictable - ie. I have a dead-on read that he's only doing something with the nuts.  These guys take buy-in after buy-in off me when I have a super strong 2nd best hand.

It just frustrates me so much that I know that he's only doing something with the nuts, but still call him because I can't laydown my hand, for instance:

a) I have top two pair / middle set on a ragged board -> I'm always beat against top set, but still can't let it go
b) I flopped a king-high flush (with both of my holecards) and he tries to get it in -> he always has the ace-high flush.
c) I have AA and the flop comes 555 -> of course he has the 5.
d) I have KK pre-flop and can't fold it, knowing that I'm always running into Aces.
e) I have Aces Full of Kings at the river and even shove over his "fish value line", paying him off with his 4-of-a-kind / royal flush.

I'm also a station when it comes to pot odds, for instance I get > 5:1 on his river-shove (because he check/called off almost his entire stack on some draw) - even when I know that he's always check/folding when he misses and donk-shoving when he hits, I'm still calling.

Hopefully the week away from any computers, internet, etc. will really help me.

Anyways, I need to start packing and then drive to the airport, Egypt is waiting for me ... :-)

Enjoy Egypt :)

To me it seems like sometimes you're calling even thoug you KNOW it's the wrong move. I do the same thing sometimes. No clue why, because the whole notion of "I call with KK even though I KNOW he as the straight..." just to prove yourself right is stupid...yet I keep on doing it.

Try not objectively analyze your game. Don't worry too much about "this one time I lost AA to 72o all-in preflop" and focus on long term.

__________________________

Goats!!! MORE GOATS!!!