I'm just starting out, playing the low limits: $5 & 6's. So perhaps I don't know what I'm talking about. But I'm in the opinion that in whiffed pots, 2nd barrelling and check folding could be a more profitable line... versus checking the turn... after you've raised preflop and cbet the flop. Especially for me, an aggressive pf bettor.
I played with some stats in HEM. Bear in mind; I have a small sample size: 889 hands... but already, I can make an inference from the numbers. B, B, B: yielded a profit. (9 hands +$2932) I rarely did it... and no surprise ...I had a lock on the hand (TPTK, overpair, st8, etc). However, what is important is 6 out of 9 times Villain folded to turn bet... giving me credit = no showdown.
In contrast: B, B, X line is a loser (13 hands - $2355). Only got to 6 showdowns: winning just 1: Villains had TP x2, and BP once. I had a split pot, and the last turn check allowed a villain to river the flush.
If I were to bluff the Turn vs. say... a thinking TAG, what boards would you be inclined to bet?
1) Monotone
2) Overcard to the board on Turn?
3) Flush/straight completes?
4) 993, JJ6 boards...
Does B, B, B mean bet preflop, bet flop, bet turn? or bet flop, bet turn, bet river?
What you do on different board textures depends a lot on how often they call vs. c/r vs. fold. I think what you're getting at though is that if you raise often preflop, and bet the flop a lot, you should bet the turn a bunch more. Sounds good :).
In general, barrel when the hands in your range (not what you actually have) could still have equity against the hands villain is flatting the flop with. Like, if you bet on 954 and villain flats, bet again on virtually any turn against a low-limit TAG player. He's not continuing with nearly any hands in his range when facing multiple barrels since pretty much any card could improve your hand.
Skates... Thanks for responding.
I meant B, B, B, to mean bet preflop, bet flop, bet turn. Against TAGs, I've been aggressive due to their tight nature: I like betting vs. limping because it puts money in the pot. It sets when I flop or hold a monster. I cbet nearly 100% because TAGs fold lots of flops/ value. I bet alot of hands... so from their perception... I can have ATC.
Eventually I notice their calling range open up. Because of this, the standard way I had been playing: check turn and give up... seemed dumb. Based on my betting frequency, if a TAG hits BP or whiffs with high cards, he might "float and evaluate" . To combat this: It was my opinion that if I made more frequent 2 barrels, I could get them off those hands as well. If called, I'm beat. Glad to see that you think this is sound strategy.
I will try to put it in practice with the advice you gave me about barrelling my range.
You've got it. Just in case someone else is reading this and wants extra confirmation... I love your train of thought. You open wide because they fold too much. Then you bet the flop because they fold too much. Over time, they start calling your preflop and flop bets. That DOES NOT necessarily mean that you should tighten up preflop or on the flop. It means you should bet the turn more often. If someone calls 100% PF and 100% on the flop, but 10% on the turn... your optimal strategy is opening 100%, betting the flop 100%, and betting the turn 100%. Obviously that's an extreme example, but most people make the wrong adjustment when someone starts calling their flop bets; they tighten up their flop betting range instead of widening their turn betting range.
I like what you're thinking, keep lagging it up.
I like this :-)
Just be a bit carefull, though, not to valuetown yourself as I did last weekend:
If your opponent folds to most of your bets on some street, then do not barrel him on the next one ! For instance, if he calls 100% PF, but folds to most of your cbets then he mostly has some sort of a hand when he calls.
A variation of this is if your opponet calls 100% PF, donks most flops and you give up to almost all of his donks, then do not fire a 2nd barrel after he check/called you on the flop !
I so heavily exploited myself with that this weekend because I got the logic all wrong :-(
I rembered from one of the videos - I even think it was from you, Skates - if your opponent has any significant donking range, then you should combat this by betting relentlessly by betting every time he checks to you.
Well, what I got terribly wrong with that was that I folded to way too many of this guy's donkbets, so he could profitably donk all his air and check all his value. And then of course, he had a hand every single time he checked to me.
Unfortunately, I didn't pay attention to this enough since I was also watching TV and already a bit drunk, so he owned me pretty badly.
Instead, I should have floated / raised his donkbets a lot more often.
Ok, other question for you, Skates:
If your opponents calls most of your barrels whenever he has some sort of a (weak) draw, check back turn and fire any blank river ? Or fire turn and most (any?) blank river ?
I'm just thinking, in theory it doesn't make much sense to fire the turn with air against a guy like that because he won't fold his draw anyways, so we could better do some pot control and take it from it at the river. However, we absolutely do want to bet our value hands against him, so wouldn't this become exploitable ?