5%+ should be considered good long term. Obviously you'll get outliers that are true 5% ROI guys that will have 7 or 8%. And the best players will probably be around 10% I'd guess, maybe even higher if they are really skilled in the mid to end game areas (in that structure having a very solid mid to end game is really valuable and important).To get an idea of the type of swings you can expect, check our our variance calculator in the tools section of the site. Input a winrate that equals a rough ROI that you're looking at, throw in some games and put the buyin levels (make sure to do win and loss correct. Losing a $11 + .50 is losing 11.50, winning an $11 + .50 is winning $10.50).That should help answer your question a bit.
Does anyone have some input on Turbos vs Reg speed at Full Tilt for 'winning players'. I mean, I read/heard somewhere that playing the reg speed games if you have an edge is better because you have more time to figure out, and outplay your opposition where as in the turbos games are often over before you get any solid reads.Personally I find the reg speed games suit me better because I just end up at 80/160 too often in the Turbos and i've also struggled vs hyper aggressive opponents when i'm failing to connect on flops.I know the Turbos are very beatable and indeed I believe my ROI is around 12% at the $6 and $11 on FT but I feel like a lot of this is running good in the big pots. While i'm on the subject, based on the fact that reads are difficult to build up in such a sort time unless you're rematching the same guy, wouldn't it make sense to 2/3/4 table the turbos and play a pretty ABC game just adjusting to general tendancies i.e. Player at table one is TAG, player at table 2 is LAG, player at table 3 is Loose Passive, etc.
Hey soulouri, I have a lot of experience playing both reg and turbo speed games and at different times have been on both sides of the fence. Starting off, I always played reg speed games as I thought there would be more edge, less variance etc. I have completely changed my opinion of this and now only play turbos. For a few reasons: one, the games run more (just from watching lobbies I would say at 200+ that they run probably twice as much if not more). This is obviously important for volume as well, which is another benefit. I actually think turbos are maybe even more profitable (depending on the player types you are facing), because it really multiplies the mistakes that are made. For example, blinds start off higher and go up quicker - as a result you find yourself in great spots more frequently and playing bigger pots against their mistakes/weaknesses. I also think that fish prefer turbo speed games, because they are quicker and aren't as "boring" as reg speed. You could find yourself playing a 45 minute match fairly easily in some cases in a reg speed tournament whereas in turbos that will almost never happen. A few stats from this month: I have played 28 turbos (all 220 and 330), and the highest matches in length were 16 minutes. Honestly, maybe I am just "running good" in terms of people sitting but I can't remember a time where I have seen so many fish sitting either. People that are stuck 15k+ with terrible stats sitting over and over and over. Also, the highest blind level I have been to at this point is 50/100 and for only 12 hands overall. Granted, I haven't seen much of the reg speed side of things (since I haven't played any this month yet) so my response is one sided - but I think the things mentioned here are extremely solid in terms of the benefits etc. Also I hope I don't jinx myself but I'm 22-6 for the month with a 47.83% ROI over the small sample :)
Thanks for the detailed response. I know at the high stakes almost everyone is playing turbos, I guess the theory with the fish applies through all levels.I guess i'll put in some volume at the turbos and see how I fair.
I believe it is, for a true ROI.Of course people have 10%, but that doesn't always mean it's possible to have a true ROI of 10% (since a bunch of 8% winners over a small sample will almost always contain at least a few guys running hot enough to reach 10%, even if they don't really have that true ROI).You'll have to have a pretty solid mid to end game, however, to beat players for a heavy edge in FTP turbos. You can certainly win without it, but it makes your life much easier (and your edge/profit much larger) if you're pretty competent in the mid to end game, including adjustments vs various opponents and good exploitive strategy.
5%+ should be considered good long term. Obviously you'll get outliers that are true 5% ROI guys that will have 7 or 8%. And the best players will probably be around 10% I'd guess, maybe even higher if they are really skilled in the mid to end game areas (in that structure having a very solid mid to end game is really valuable and important).To get an idea of the type of swings you can expect, check our our variance calculator in the tools section of the site. Input a winrate that equals a rough ROI that you're looking at, throw in some games and put the buyin levels (make sure to do win and loss correct. Losing a $11 + .50 is losing 11.50, winning an $11 + .50 is winning $10.50).That should help answer your question a bit.
Does anyone have some input on Turbos vs Reg speed at Full Tilt for 'winning players'. I mean, I read/heard somewhere that playing the reg speed games if you have an edge is better because you have more time to figure out, and outplay your opposition where as in the turbos games are often over before you get any solid reads.Personally I find the reg speed games suit me better because I just end up at 80/160 too often in the Turbos and i've also struggled vs hyper aggressive opponents when i'm failing to connect on flops.I know the Turbos are very beatable and indeed I believe my ROI is around 12% at the $6 and $11 on FT but I feel like a lot of this is running good in the big pots. While i'm on the subject, based on the fact that reads are difficult to build up in such a sort time unless you're rematching the same guy, wouldn't it make sense to 2/3/4 table the turbos and play a pretty ABC game just adjusting to general tendancies i.e. Player at table one is TAG, player at table 2 is LAG, player at table 3 is Loose Passive, etc.
Hey soulouri, I have a lot of experience playing both reg and turbo speed games and at different times have been on both sides of the fence. Starting off, I always played reg speed games as I thought there would be more edge, less variance etc. I have completely changed my opinion of this and now only play turbos. For a few reasons: one, the games run more (just from watching lobbies I would say at 200+ that they run probably twice as much if not more). This is obviously important for volume as well, which is another benefit. I actually think turbos are maybe even more profitable (depending on the player types you are facing), because it really multiplies the mistakes that are made. For example, blinds start off higher and go up quicker - as a result you find yourself in great spots more frequently and playing bigger pots against their mistakes/weaknesses. I also think that fish prefer turbo speed games, because they are quicker and aren't as "boring" as reg speed. You could find yourself playing a 45 minute match fairly easily in some cases in a reg speed tournament whereas in turbos that will almost never happen. A few stats from this month: I have played 28 turbos (all 220 and 330), and the highest matches in length were 16 minutes. Honestly, maybe I am just "running good" in terms of people sitting but I can't remember a time where I have seen so many fish sitting either. People that are stuck 15k+ with terrible stats sitting over and over and over. Also, the highest blind level I have been to at this point is 50/100 and for only 12 hands overall. Granted, I haven't seen much of the reg speed side of things (since I haven't played any this month yet) so my response is one sided - but I think the things mentioned here are extremely solid in terms of the benefits etc. Also I hope I don't jinx myself but I'm 22-6 for the month with a 47.83% ROI over the small sample :)
Brent
ITRIED2WARNU
My Coaching Page
GTFO & get some volume in Brent, you slacker! ;)
Thanks for the detailed response. I know at the high stakes almost everyone is playing turbos, I guess the theory with the fish applies through all levels.I guess i'll put in some volume at the turbos and see how I fair.
Ya I really do need to play more.. anyone want to give me a motivation/prop bet for volume? :) And you're welcome, no problem!
Brent
ITRIED2WARNU
My Coaching Page
Saw ur tweets about volume y'day. FWIW I have a fulltime job & have played just as many games!
ITRIED2WARNU <-- pwned :(
Brent
ITRIED2WARNU
My Coaching Page
It's possible a 10% ROI in the $22 turbo on full tilt poker?
I believe it is, for a true ROI.Of course people have 10%, but that doesn't always mean it's possible to have a true ROI of 10% (since a bunch of 8% winners over a small sample will almost always contain at least a few guys running hot enough to reach 10%, even if they don't really have that true ROI).You'll have to have a pretty solid mid to end game, however, to beat players for a heavy edge in FTP turbos. You can certainly win without it, but it makes your life much easier (and your edge/profit much larger) if you're pretty competent in the mid to end game, including adjustments vs various opponents and good exploitive strategy.