No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$5.00+$0.25 Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBVillain1450 BBHero1550 Effective Stacks: 29bb Blinds 25/50 Pre-Flop (75, 2 players) Hero is BB Villain raises to 100, Hero raises to 350, Villain calls 250 Flop (700, 2 players) Hero bets 250, Villain calls 250 Turn (1200, 2 players) Hero goes all-in 950, Villain goes all-in 850 River (3000, 2 players, 2 all-in) Final Pot: 3000 Villain shows two pair, Nines and Eights Hero shows a pair of Aces Villain wins 2900 ( won +1450 ) Hero lost -1450 I make a nice fat 3bet pf figuring villain will call pretty light. I hit TPTK on a wet flop that I think hits villains range pf flatting range quite nicely. I bet small to set up stacks for a turn shove. I know this is pretty much a big cooler, but is my thinking on this hand all right? Is a lead shove here better given that the flop is pretty draw and by betting small I'm giving villain such good odds to call? Thanks.
In general I don't like the larger 3bet size at these stacks, especially without something like JJ-AA that will flop much better on average.Here, you ended up underbetting the flop just to setup turn stacks. A better way is to probably 2.5x preflop rather than 3.5x, you'll get a better flop bet in there and it'll setup stacks much more naturally for all streets.What would you have done if you had missed and wanted to fire out a bet for fold equity here? 400 into 700 and fold to a shove? 250 3bet, 300 flop bet into 500 then 1100 turn pot with 900 stacks left is going to give you a lot more flexibility on any sort of flop (those are just estimated sizes, you can adjust them a bit for your purposes in the hand, depending on reads, texture and what you want to accomplish).But the main problem with this hand is that you ended up getting too little of value on the flop with such a strong hand on a board filled with pairs and draws that can call, and I think you did that because of your preflop 3 bet sizing.Now, if a player is surely calling with the same type of range vs a 3.5x 3bet as a 2.5x 3bet, and you make this large 3bet for those reasons, that's more than fine, you don't need to setup perfect sizes all the time if you have that sort of read. But you would need to make a larger flop bet then to extract your value, particularly from a loose opponent.In short, if you're setting up stack sizes, start with preflop play. If you're deviating from that generally good strategy (like against the loose player) then don't bend over backwards to do it on the flop, particularly if it goes against your basic goal (solid value vs loose player).
Solid. That makes a ton of sense, Ryan. And you're exactly right when you infer that my too-small flop value bet was a direct result of my large 3-bet pre. Villain was especially loose, and I felt that villain's calling range facing a 3.5X 3bet would be virtually identical to his range against a smaller one. Then I tripped up on the idea of setting up perfect stacks. Certainly a more reasonably sized value bet - and maybe even lead shoving - probably would have more sense than the underbet. Your suggested line of 2.5X 3bet - 300 on flop - shove on turn would have sidestepped the problem entirely.If this hand isn't evidence enough, setting up stacks with appropriate bet-sizing is an aspect of my game that demands some immediate attention and adjustment. I feel like I don't have it in the back of my mind when I'm going through a match, so on the off chance that a question of stacks arises, I make some pretty ill-conceived plays.
With stacks how they are, bet big on the flop. I think an amount that cant be flatted and and an amount that makes it look like if he shoves you could fold. I think 500-600 would be good. A shove can be good too, if you think it looks weaker. What ever you do the goal is to get all your chips in on the flop.