pull up a nash chart while ur playing and just push according to that when 10-12bbs deep unless you feel you have a strategy that will exploit something they have been doing.
Hi Artur! A Nash chart is an "equilibrium strategy". That means that this is the perfect strategy to play (from each of the SB and BB) if your opponent plays perfectly. In other words, if both oppnents are playing perfectly, they will be using the NASH chart.The upper chart on that web page is the range you should be Pushing from the SB. For example, let's say your hand is Q5o. The unsuited area is the lower left and the suited area is upper right. So if you look at the column "Q" and the row "5", you will find the number of big blinds at which you should be pushing from the SB if you are following NASH. In this case, that number is 8.9. So if you have less than or equal to 8.9 big blinds (before blinds are posted, I believe...), then you should shove.It is recommended that you do not use NASH charts if you are over 11 or 12 big blinds deep, as there are likely better ways actions to take in minraising or limping.The bottom chart lists NASH calling ranges, but instructors say to follow that, because most opponents are not pushing according to NASH charts and therefor if you call according to the calling chart, then you are probably calling too wide.Notice that NASH charts do not show you the best way to EXPLOIT a player. For example, if a player is calling your shove with 100% of his range at 11bb deep, then 74s would NOT be a good hand to shove even though it's listed as a shove at 13.9bb deep.
qattack: It is recommended that you do not use NASH charts if you are over 11 or 12 big blinds deepAccording to this, when my stack reaches 12bb my NASH shove range is:22+A2+, K3o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T8o+, 98o, 87o, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J4s+, T6s+, 95s+, 85s+, 74s+, 64s+, 54s+Is it correct?
Yes, that's exactly right. There are some easy situations to NOT use the NASH charts.One such example is if your opponent is very tight and continues to fold many, many hands OOP under 12bb and not play back unless he has a good hand. You can then minraise-fold all or most of your buttons.I'm not affiliated with this site, but would say if you have the money for one month's membership you will easily make the money back very quickly, even if you only play $2.20s. There's an entire video that goes over NASH and some other critical and basic end game techniques.That's not to mention the other 170+++ videos, many of which are geared towards beginning and novice players.
Ty you qattack. No problem for me to buy some membership. Which videos you will recommend for me to understand shove/fold strategy, NASH, etc...?And i would like to watch some videos about basic skills too.Btw, i should use same NASH to shove when opponents stack reaches 12bb?
And why to shove T8o is better, than to shove Q7o? I mean, isn't it better to shove with higher card as Q7o than T8o? And with 12BB im recommended to shove 54s and not to shove Q7o. For me Q7o obviously better than 54s. What im missing?
The question of Q7o vs. T8o is interesting. If you look at the NASH charts, then it tells you to shove Q7o at 10.3 bb, and T8o at 17.5bb. But now look at the "Caller" chart. This tells you that *calling* Q7o (8.0) is better than *calling* T8o (6.6). Why is this?When you are shoving 10bb deep, both hands are actually very marginally +EV. Villain still has a somewhat wide optimal calling range at this point. Both the Q7o and the T8o are dominated roughly the same amount (by hands such as KQ or JT). I was slightly surprised to discover that there is not much differenece in this "dominstion" factor between the two hands for stacks <18bb.T8o relies more on straight possibilities, which outweigh its lower cards. No, the difference is not great. But it is enough to make Q7o -EV in this range and T8o VERY slightly +EV throughout this range of stack sizes (10-14bb deep).The thing is, ss stacks get deeper, Villain's calling range tighterns up. He is now calling more big cards, so a larger percentage of those cards will begin to be overcards to both the Q7o and the T8o. At 10bb stacks, Q7o does have some high card strength that T8o does not have. But by the time you get to 14bb stacks, this advantage has disappeared. Now, the T8o still has its straight possibilities, whereas Q7o has no compensating advantage.To think about this in a more obvious way, picture the two hands 54o and 82o in the exact same situation. Obviously, both hands are -EV here, but you would MUCH rather have 54o than 82o.Even though the straight possibilities are slight, so are the EVs of all hands around the borderline, so those straight possibilities tip the EV into positive territory. Flush possibilities have an even greater effect.I hope that makes sense. Keep in mind, that through this whole range, the +EV T8o encounters is extremely small, under 11 chips in a 2000-2800 chip pot in each case. (!!)You want to mostly avoid using NASH charts when you are >10bb deep. To see why, the NASH charts would have you shove AA at 50bb deep (even though it's listed as "20+"...it's assumed you are not using NASH as stacks get so deep!). It's +EV to shove AA no matter what the stack depths...after all, you will at least win the blinds. But obviously there is a MORE +EV action to take than shoving AA. A simple raise will keep your opponent in with inferior hands and start building the pot.So most hands that NASH has you shoving at stack depths of greater than 10bb can be more profitably played in a different way at those stacks.Exceptions, depending on your opponent, can be small pocket pairs and Ax hands. If you are 12bb, you don't want to be CALLING with a hand like 22, because every opponent hand is either flipping with you or has you crushed. So if you simply minraise this hand and the opponent shoves allin, you are in a very tough spot.But if you open-shove 22 at 12bb deep, your opponent will fold out many hands that he may have shoved with, like Q9o or 87s. Now, your fold equity combined with your equity when called makes this a good shove.A hand like A2o is similar.Below, I've listed some videos I recommend that will talk about these things.
Here my video recommendations for the basics. I'll be revising and expanding this list soon.Primordial A1 HU sng from Scratch Pt.1 A2 HU sng from Scratch Pt.2 A5 Heads Up SNG From Scratch (Int.) Pt.1 A6 Heads Up SNG From Scratch (Int.) Pt.2 A7 Reinforcing FundamentalsFydor Fydor_8 Leakfinder 10/16/10Rypac 9 Introduction to the EndgameFydor 11 End Game Videomjw2006 1 Beating the Midstakes Heads Up SNGs Pt. 1: FundamentalsCog Dissonance 17 Adjusting to tight players 41 Postflop play: adjusting your cbetting according to opponent types.*****Sorry about the terrible formatting. I recommend you watch these videos in this order.Primordial's videos are pretty much a solid basic introduction to the game and they are easy to watch.I believe Fydor is the best instructor on the site for newer players to HU SNGs. His explanations are very thorough and he covers points that other instructors assume you already know.Rypac 9 will answer your questions about NASH and get you thinking the right way about the end game, when stacks are short.Fydor's end game video is very easy to understand and I think end game is important enough to watch two videos about it at this time.mjw2006's video is EXCELLENT, one of the best on the site for newer players.Lastly, I've included two videos by Cog Dissonance. These videos are jam-packed with great information, but they are very difficult to understand unless you pause the video, take notes, and maybe watch two or three times. But your effort will be rewarded. These videos are very deceptive. If you watch them without pausing and taking notes, all of the cocepts might make perfect sense to you and you will swear you understand them...but come game time I guarantee you will forget them...unless you take notes.
Ah, yes I forgot to mention...When you are playing heads up, only the smallest stack matters.So it's the same when either you or your opponent has 12bb.The same applies when you are deeper. For example, at 25bb. Of course you won't be pushing at 25bb stacks, but there is a major strategy difference between 25bb and 50bb...you get the idea.Your chart looks fine, and it's not terrible to shove according to NASH at 12bb, but you can do much better after you study some of the end game videos and later superturbos, which contain mostly the same concepts as end game in regular structures.
I just recently started learning HU SNGs after playing other forms for a living for 14 years. I moved up to 10s this week. My goal is to get to be making a slight profit at 30s soon, and then I will re-evaluate the turn. :)
qattack - I know I'm impossible to get in touch with now and hard to deal with, but I'm at an airport now and saw this thread. Send ChicagoRy a PM pointing here, and we should set up a few matches to play eachother. I really appreciate you thought out replies, and think that I might be able to dig into your game a little bit by making some videos against you :p.
I think something like 8pm EST on Wednesday would work for me. what timezone are you in? we can do this by email since that might be easier. we'll olay a few matches, i'll record them, then we can chat for a little bit about how they went.
Wow, that would be soooo cool. You would come out of retirement to play me??? haha!Seriously, I really appreciate all the work you guys have put into this site and I wish you were still churning out the videos. But it sounds like you found something you really love to do, and that's the important thing in life. If it brings you money also, all the better.I'm in the central time zone, but Wednesdays I'm free all day. Actually, I can be free any day any time for a chance to play a few matches against you. :)As far as "digging into my game", I don't have much of a game yet, but I'm sure working on it. I'm just devoting all of my poker time to learning this HU thing.You mean we can play postal poker? Is that like postal chess? (Just kidding!)
Those are all Standard membership videos. I will be compiling a more thorough list soon and all will be Standard videos. I did purchase a Premium membership, but don't plan on making such a list for Premium videos at this time, since I wouldn't have the skill level to recommend more advanced videos.
I have a question. What do you think about chubokov in comparison to nash. For some hands (especially suited and connectors), chubokov is much tighter. I am a little bit confused and dont konow, which system is right.
You should always push hands that are unexploitable on the Chubokov chart.For hands like suited connectors, suited 1 gappers and non suited connectors - I push them against tighter opponents who arent going to call me down light. I prefer to use Chubokov because I think there is a more optimal play than pushing Aces and Kings for 10-15 Big Blinds
pull up a nash chart while ur playing and just push according to that when 10-12bbs deep unless you feel you have a strategy that will exploit something they have been doing.
This is nash chart (http://www.holdemresources.net/hr/sngs/hune.html)? How to use it? What does all these numbers mean?
Hi Artur! A Nash chart is an "equilibrium strategy". That means that this is the perfect strategy to play (from each of the SB and BB) if your opponent plays perfectly. In other words, if both oppnents are playing perfectly, they will be using the NASH chart.The upper chart on that web page is the range you should be Pushing from the SB. For example, let's say your hand is Q5o. The unsuited area is the lower left and the suited area is upper right. So if you look at the column "Q" and the row "5", you will find the number of big blinds at which you should be pushing from the SB if you are following NASH. In this case, that number is 8.9. So if you have less than or equal to 8.9 big blinds (before blinds are posted, I believe...), then you should shove.It is recommended that you do not use NASH charts if you are over 11 or 12 big blinds deep, as there are likely better ways actions to take in minraising or limping.The bottom chart lists NASH calling ranges, but instructors say to follow that, because most opponents are not pushing according to NASH charts and therefor if you call according to the calling chart, then you are probably calling too wide.Notice that NASH charts do not show you the best way to EXPLOIT a player. For example, if a player is calling your shove with 100% of his range at 11bb deep, then 74s would NOT be a good hand to shove even though it's listed as a shove at 13.9bb deep.
qattack: It is recommended that you do not use NASH charts if you are over 11 or 12 big blinds deepAccording to this, when my stack reaches 12bb my NASH shove range is:22+A2+, K3o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T8o+, 98o, 87o, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J4s+, T6s+, 95s+, 85s+, 74s+, 64s+, 54s+Is it correct?
Yes, that's exactly right. There are some easy situations to NOT use the NASH charts.One such example is if your opponent is very tight and continues to fold many, many hands OOP under 12bb and not play back unless he has a good hand. You can then minraise-fold all or most of your buttons.I'm not affiliated with this site, but would say if you have the money for one month's membership you will easily make the money back very quickly, even if you only play $2.20s. There's an entire video that goes over NASH and some other critical and basic end game techniques.That's not to mention the other 170+++ videos, many of which are geared towards beginning and novice players.
Ty you qattack. No problem for me to buy some membership. Which videos you will recommend for me to understand shove/fold strategy, NASH, etc...?And i would like to watch some videos about basic skills too.Btw, i should use same NASH to shove when opponents stack reaches 12bb?
And why to shove T8o is better, than to shove Q7o? I mean, isn't it better to shove with higher card as Q7o than T8o? And with 12BB im recommended to shove 54s and not to shove Q7o. For me Q7o obviously better than 54s. What im missing?
The question of Q7o vs. T8o is interesting. If you look at the NASH charts, then it tells you to shove Q7o at 10.3 bb, and T8o at 17.5bb. But now look at the "Caller" chart. This tells you that *calling* Q7o (8.0) is better than *calling* T8o (6.6). Why is this?When you are shoving 10bb deep, both hands are actually very marginally +EV. Villain still has a somewhat wide optimal calling range at this point. Both the Q7o and the T8o are dominated roughly the same amount (by hands such as KQ or JT). I was slightly surprised to discover that there is not much differenece in this "dominstion" factor between the two hands for stacks <18bb.T8o relies more on straight possibilities, which outweigh its lower cards. No, the difference is not great. But it is enough to make Q7o -EV in this range and T8o VERY slightly +EV throughout this range of stack sizes (10-14bb deep).The thing is, ss stacks get deeper, Villain's calling range tighterns up. He is now calling more big cards, so a larger percentage of those cards will begin to be overcards to both the Q7o and the T8o. At 10bb stacks, Q7o does have some high card strength that T8o does not have. But by the time you get to 14bb stacks, this advantage has disappeared. Now, the T8o still has its straight possibilities, whereas Q7o has no compensating advantage.To think about this in a more obvious way, picture the two hands 54o and 82o in the exact same situation. Obviously, both hands are -EV here, but you would MUCH rather have 54o than 82o.Even though the straight possibilities are slight, so are the EVs of all hands around the borderline, so those straight possibilities tip the EV into positive territory. Flush possibilities have an even greater effect.I hope that makes sense. Keep in mind, that through this whole range, the +EV T8o encounters is extremely small, under 11 chips in a 2000-2800 chip pot in each case. (!!)You want to mostly avoid using NASH charts when you are >10bb deep. To see why, the NASH charts would have you shove AA at 50bb deep (even though it's listed as "20+"...it's assumed you are not using NASH as stacks get so deep!). It's +EV to shove AA no matter what the stack depths...after all, you will at least win the blinds. But obviously there is a MORE +EV action to take than shoving AA. A simple raise will keep your opponent in with inferior hands and start building the pot.So most hands that NASH has you shoving at stack depths of greater than 10bb can be more profitably played in a different way at those stacks.Exceptions, depending on your opponent, can be small pocket pairs and Ax hands. If you are 12bb, you don't want to be CALLING with a hand like 22, because every opponent hand is either flipping with you or has you crushed. So if you simply minraise this hand and the opponent shoves allin, you are in a very tough spot.But if you open-shove 22 at 12bb deep, your opponent will fold out many hands that he may have shoved with, like Q9o or 87s. Now, your fold equity combined with your equity when called makes this a good shove.A hand like A2o is similar.Below, I've listed some videos I recommend that will talk about these things.
Here my video recommendations for the basics. I'll be revising and expanding this list soon.Primordial A1 HU sng from Scratch Pt.1 A2 HU sng from Scratch Pt.2 A5 Heads Up SNG From Scratch (Int.) Pt.1 A6 Heads Up SNG From Scratch (Int.) Pt.2 A7 Reinforcing FundamentalsFydor Fydor_8 Leakfinder 10/16/10Rypac 9 Introduction to the EndgameFydor 11 End Game Videomjw2006 1 Beating the Midstakes Heads Up SNGs Pt. 1: FundamentalsCog Dissonance 17 Adjusting to tight players 41 Postflop play: adjusting your cbetting according to opponent types.*****Sorry about the terrible formatting. I recommend you watch these videos in this order.Primordial's videos are pretty much a solid basic introduction to the game and they are easy to watch.I believe Fydor is the best instructor on the site for newer players to HU SNGs. His explanations are very thorough and he covers points that other instructors assume you already know.Rypac 9 will answer your questions about NASH and get you thinking the right way about the end game, when stacks are short.Fydor's end game video is very easy to understand and I think end game is important enough to watch two videos about it at this time.mjw2006's video is EXCELLENT, one of the best on the site for newer players.Lastly, I've included two videos by Cog Dissonance. These videos are jam-packed with great information, but they are very difficult to understand unless you pause the video, take notes, and maybe watch two or three times. But your effort will be rewarded. These videos are very deceptive. If you watch them without pausing and taking notes, all of the cocepts might make perfect sense to you and you will swear you understand them...but come game time I guarantee you will forget them...unless you take notes.
Qattack, are those videos in your recommended list available with the standard membership, or do you have to sign up for Premium?
WOW. TY qattack for so interesting and deep answers. Now all became clear about that Q7o vs 54s problem. And i will watch these videos recommended by you for sure. Should i shove with the same range when opponents stack reaches 12BB or less? For example, blinds: 50/100. My stack is 1800 and im in SB and villains stack is 1200. My shove range is:22+ A2o+, K3o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T8o+, 98o, 87o, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J4s+, T6s+, 95s+, 85s+, 74s+, 64s+, 54s+Im asking it coz i should shove when my stack reaches this level, is it the same with opponents stack?And this is shove range (from NASH chart) i have figured out for me according to "12BB rule": /// 12 BB22+, A2o+, K3o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T8o+, 98o, 87o, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J4s+, T6s+, 95s+, 85s+, 74s+, 64s+, 54s+/// 11 BB22+, A2o+, K2o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T8o+, 98O, 87o, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J4s+, T5s+, 95s+, 85s+, 74s+, 64s+, 54s+/// 10 BB22+, A2o+, K2o+, Q7o+, J8o+, T8o+, 97o+, 87o, 76o A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J3s+, T4s+, 95s+, 84s+, 74s+, 64s+, 54s+ /// 9 BB22+, A2o+, K2o+, Q6o+, J8o+, T7o+, 97o+, 87o, 76o, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J3s+, T4s+, 95s+, 84s+, 74s+, 64s+, 54s+/// 8 BB22+A2o+, K2o+, Q5o+, J7o+, T7o+, 97o+, 87O, 76o, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T4s+, 95s+, 84s+, 74s+, 64s+, 54s+/// 7 BB22+, A2o+, K2o+, Q3o+, J7o+, T7o+, 97o+, 87O+, 76o, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T3s+, 95s+, 84s+, 74s+, 64s+, 54s+/// 6 BB22+, A2o+, K2o+, Q2o+, J6o+, T7o+, 97o+, 86o+, 76o, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 94s+, 84s+, 74s+, 64s+, 54s+/// 5 BB22+, A2o+, K2o+, Q2o+, J4o+, T6o+, 96o+, 86o+, 76o A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 94s+, 84s+, 74s+, 64s+, 54s+/// 4 BB22+, A2o+, K2o+, Q2o+, J2o+, T5o+, 96o+, 86o+, 76o, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 93s+, 84s+, 74s+, 64s+, 54s+/// 3 BB22+, A2o+, K2o+, Q2o+, J2o+, T4o+, 95o+, 86o+, 76o, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 84s+, 74s+, 64s+, 54s+/// 2 BB22+, A2o+, K2o+, Q2o+, J2o+, T2o+, 92o+, 84o+, 74o+, 65o+, 54o+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 43s+/// 1 BB100% SHOVE So, im ready to use this chart in the battle. Everything is right about it?
Ah, yes I forgot to mention...When you are playing heads up, only the smallest stack matters.So it's the same when either you or your opponent has 12bb.The same applies when you are deeper. For example, at 25bb. Of course you won't be pushing at 25bb stacks, but there is a major strategy difference between 25bb and 50bb...you get the idea.Your chart looks fine, and it's not terrible to shove according to NASH at 12bb, but you can do much better after you study some of the end game videos and later superturbos, which contain mostly the same concepts as end game in regular structures.
I didnt take the time to read all of these long posts, but when I was learning endgame spamz's endgamge post on 2+2 was really helpful.
Ok, ty again!Btw qattack, at what limits do you play and how successfully? If not a secret ;)
I just recently started learning HU SNGs after playing other forms for a living for 14 years. I moved up to 10s this week. My goal is to get to be making a slight profit at 30s soon, and then I will re-evaluate the turn. :)
qattack - I know I'm impossible to get in touch with now and hard to deal with, but I'm at an airport now and saw this thread. Send ChicagoRy a PM pointing here, and we should set up a few matches to play eachother. I really appreciate you thought out replies, and think that I might be able to dig into your game a little bit by making some videos against you :p.
I think something like 8pm EST on Wednesday would work for me. what timezone are you in? we can do this by email since that might be easier. we'll olay a few matches, i'll record them, then we can chat for a little bit about how they went.
Wow, that would be soooo cool. You would come out of retirement to play me??? haha!Seriously, I really appreciate all the work you guys have put into this site and I wish you were still churning out the videos. But it sounds like you found something you really love to do, and that's the important thing in life. If it brings you money also, all the better.I'm in the central time zone, but Wednesdays I'm free all day. Actually, I can be free any day any time for a chance to play a few matches against you. :)As far as "digging into my game", I don't have much of a game yet, but I'm sure working on it. I'm just devoting all of my poker time to learning this HU thing.You mean we can play postal poker? Is that like postal chess? (Just kidding!)
Those are all Standard membership videos. I will be compiling a more thorough list soon and all will be Standard videos. I did purchase a Premium membership, but don't plan on making such a list for Premium videos at this time, since I wouldn't have the skill level to recommend more advanced videos.
Thanks for the quick reply, think ill have to sign up =D.
qattack - They should consider putting you on the payroll. Hope to see you at the 55s soon (although don't sit me:). MW
I have a question. What do you think about chubokov in comparison to nash. For some hands (especially suited and connectors), chubokov is much tighter. I am a little bit confused and dont konow, which system is right.
You should always push hands that are unexploitable on the Chubokov chart.For hands like suited connectors, suited 1 gappers and non suited connectors - I push them against tighter opponents who arent going to call me down light. I prefer to use Chubokov because I think there is a more optimal play than pushing Aces and Kings for 10-15 Big Blinds
Hey every1, is there any overview like this one for nash in the 3rd post here for chubukov too? THX