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zZzTILT's picture
Thanks for all your input,

Thanks for all your input, mers. Obv. went on a nice heater since I joined the group. :)1. HandVillain opened 95 %, called 90 %, cbets 80 %, didnt fold to cbets much. I 3bet him quite a bit and also throw in a couple of c/r bluffs to which he folded every time. So on the flop my plan is to c/r call as he can ship a lot worse but also he can call with a lot worse. Another option may be to c/c and lead a lot of turn as he doesnt like to fold vs single bets it seems. What do you think about this?But as played. Turn b/c, and river I wasnt sure whether to jam or c/c. As I look over the hh now, I think c/c is better as his calling range is really narrow here but he can certainly bluff busted draws?http://www.handconverter.com/hands/12496192. HandVillain is a reg. 66 % openraise, 11 % call, 5 % 3bet, 50 % cbet, 11 % fold2cbet. Flop c/r/call jam should be best as we have a lot of feq and if we get jammed on our eq isnt bad either. Turn I decided to jam to fold out his overcards/draws. I couldnt rly bet any other size.Maybe a general question with draws on paired boards. Against fish I usually just c/c with fd/oesd because the dont like to fold any overcard on the flop and mostly neither on the turn. Against regs I usually c/r / call. Is this reasonable?http://www.handconverter.com/hands/1249620

mersenneary's picture
Glad to hear about the

Glad to hear about the heater! :)I prefer c/r flop with the K6 given opponent described. The river is pretty weird - I think jamming is better, because the only draw is the club draw which doesn't always play it like this, and he should have a good amount of 8x that thinks wtf to your river shove. It's close, though.With fish the biggest adjustment you should be making with your draws on paired boards is to just make your check/raise size nice and exploitably big, we don't need to keep it small enough to rep air. So I'd usually make a bigger c/r size here to set up a more comfortable turn jam.

reallymonkeyish's picture
In hand 2, what about betting

In hand 2, what about betting 125-150 on the turn? Jx and 8x are never folding to your jam, but overcards may well fold to that sizing, and you can jam river vs. them. You also give yourself a chance to evaluate river and fold out 8x with a jam if the flushdraw from the flop hits (although obv he has that sometimes, but it's not as much as 8x). Sucks when 8x jams over you, but it was calling a jam anyway. I don't think you induce that often given the board.Now, that's not to say that I think betting is better than checking on the turn (bleh it's just such a shittastic turn card), but I think betting an amount that sets up a PSish bet on the river is waaayyy better than overjamming turn, given what his range consists of.Not sure about the c/r vs. c/c on the flop, want to hear what mers has to say on that.EDIT: he ninja-posted, response makes sense.

zZzTILT's picture
"With fish the biggest

"With fish the biggest adjustment you should be making with your draws on paired boards is to just make your check/raise size nice and exploitably big, we don't need to keep it small enough to rep air. So I'd usually make a bigger c/r size here to set up a more comfortable turn jam."Makes perfect sense. But what about if we are deeper and playing someone who doesnt like to fold? Do you like c/calling with draws then on paired boards or do you still c/r?

zZzTILT's picture
One hand for today. Villain

One hand for today.Villain is a fish according to sharkscope. This is the 3rd hand. First he folded to my btn raise, 2nd he limped and now this one happened. Is this a good tripple barrel spot against fish? I see him calling so much on flop and turn which is folding on this river (like any fd draw, straight draws, gs, maybe some weak pairs).http://www.handconverter.com/hands/1251250

mersenneary's picture
The deeper we are with that

The deeper we are with that T9 hand, the better c/c or check/raise small/fold is going to be, because we are just owned up the wazoo by flush draws, so it becomes a really big problem if we're deeper.

mersenneary's picture
I'm not a big fan of

I'm not a big fan of barreling off with the J8hh, but I could be wrong. Basically, it's just too easy to put you on a missed draw on this board, and I've seen fish make hero calls here time and time again with ridiculous stuff. I think you're getting very little in the way of folds on the turn, and while I don't hate the turn bet if the purpose is to set up a river barrel, I still think this is a -EV play.

zZzTILT's picture
Another tripple barrel spot,

Another tripple barrel spot, this time after a c/r against a reg-ish player who opened 90 % and cbet a lot.Should I give up after he called the turn? What about the turn barrel?http://www.handconverter.com/hands/1254120Also one hand against a reg who was more on the tighter side. Is it to nitty to fold flop or is it ok? He didnt c/r before and his c/r is so big and there so many bad turn cards.http://www.handconverter.com/hands/1254126

mersenneary's picture
http://www.handconverter.com/

http://www.handconverter.com/hands/1254120I'm not a fan of barreling turn here, I think too much of his flop calling range continues. On the river it's hard for you to rep Qx by betting this size and I'd give up there, too.

mersenneary's picture
http://www.handconverter.com/

http://www.handconverter.com/hands/1254126I think I would have to continue here, one big benefit actually of being against a tighter player is that he's not going to continue with 6x/flush draws on a turn of turns, so you very often get two streets to realize your equity. I don't think there are as many bad turns as you think - spades suck and so do 7/8/9 to some extent, but non-spade A/K/Q/J/T/6/5/4/3/2 all improve your equity against his range, imo.

zZzTILT's picture
I think a big leak of mine is

I think a big leak of mine is calling way to nitty sometimes but other times way too loose. Here are some hands and I try to find some more in the future as it is something I really have to work on.1. HandVillain is passive fish. Calls light and doesnt show a lot of aggression. He thought a bit before minraising the turn. Am I nit to seriously consider folding? I just think I'm crushed here so often...http://www.handconverter.com/hands/12586722. HandEarly on, no real reads. He didnt open much, maybe 20 % but called 80 %. Where do I fold?http://www.handconverter.com/hands/12586773. HandVillain is quite aggro, opens 80 %, 3bets 20 %, cbets 65 %. His line is so suspicious... but can I fold the river?http://www.handconverter.com/hands/1258682

mersenneary's picture
http://www.handconverter.com/

http://www.handconverter.com/hands/1258672It's OK to consider folding. It's honestly very close and a spot that's pretty sickening.

mersenneary's picture
http://www.handconverter.com/

http://www.handconverter.com/hands/1258677Another not-fun spot but I think getting it in is fine.

mersenneary's picture
http://www.handconverter.com/

http://www.handconverter.com/hands/1258682You have to call river here.These hands don't feel good, but they aren't going to be a source of big leaks. They're close, gross spots. 

zZzTILT's picture
"Also it would be cool if you

"Also it would be cool if you could write some words about playing a freq. 3-bettor (opening range, limping range, 3bet calling range, jamming range) if we are deep. Maybe this is also an idea for a weekly theory topic. :)""Good idea. I'll make that this week's article."Is there still something coming? Would be very helpful. :) 

mersenneary's picture
Done!

Done!

zZzTILT's picture
As I dont have any hands at

As I dont have any hands at the moment, it would be great if you could talk a bit about how you would exploit the typical 33/55s reg? What do you think are their biggest leaks which easily can be exploited? (not talking about your 2+2 article :) )

mersenneary's picture
I mean, it's been a long time

I mean, it's been a long time since I played the 55s significantly, so I don't want to mislead you about "typical". Most regs have very value-oriented ranges, especially when it comes to big river bets after multiple streets of aggression, but that's not universial either. I would focus on identifying tendencies and exploiting rather than coming in with too many assumptions.

zZzTILT's picture
Ok, my last strategy post for

Ok, my last strategy post for this session. Thanks for all your input mers!1. HandI c/raised him a couple of times before but he didnt play back. He opens a lot pre but calls not too wide oop. Turn spr kinda sucks. Always dont know what size to bet here or just jam. What do you do against described villain, against a loose fish and against a bluffy opponent?http://www.handconverter.com/hands/12763612. HandFirst hand. I decided to jam because people love to jam strong and middle Ax first hand so that doesnt leave much expect air / draws.http://www.handconverter.com/hands/12763623. HandVillain is a losing player. He limped a bunch, raised like 40 %, called 60-70 % and didnt like to fold a lot. On the river I was like wtf...Is this always a monster?http://www.handconverter.com/hands/12763654. HandLets imagine we have A2-A9 on AJxss. Villain a good reg, raised pre and cbet 50 %. We are 50bb deep. We c/r him a couple of times during this match and he is capable of multi barrel bluffs. Which aces do you c/r and gii and with which do you call him down? 

mersenneary's picture
http://www.handconverter.com/

http://www.handconverter.com/hands/1276361I think jamming here and big-ish bet/call are going to be very similar in expectation, I'd usually bet/call.

mersenneary's picture
http://www.handconverter.com/

http://www.handconverter.com/hands/1276362It's close, but I still think I'd contest by calling and check/calling turn to give his air a chance to put the rest in. If we're a little shallower I'd just say nh. It is a really borderline decision whether to go with it or give up, though. I'm trying to make sure I don't bias myself by the fact that it worked. :)

mersenneary's picture
http://www.handconverter.com/

http://www.handconverter.com/hands/1276365 Definitely a bizarre line. I still think you need to call, you don't need very much equity and he will show up with spazz, plus he can have Ax that chops with you.

mersenneary's picture
"4. Hand Lets imagine we have

"4. Hand Lets imagine we have A2-A9 on AJxss. Villain a good reg, raised pre and cbet 50 %. We are 50bb deep. We c/r him a couple of times during this match and he is capable of multi barrel bluffs. Which aces do you c/r and gii and with which do you call him down?"It depends a ton on how he contests vs check/raises. If he'll float, 3bet with flush draws, call 3 streets with Jx, those are all great reasons to check/raise. I guess as somehwat of a default I'm check/raising A7-A9 and check/calling the lower ones given the multi barrel read, but it's a ton based on those type of nuances in his play.

zZzTILT's picture
Would really like to hear

Would really like to hear your opinion about this hand. :)http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/185/heads-up-sng/33-kk-high-board-vs-d...

mersenneary's picture
"1. For some calculations I

"1. For some calculations I need realistic 3-betting and opening ranges. Could you please check my excel file and give me an evaluation of them? Also which ranges (3b and opening) would you take/assume if you encounter a random. Link: https://rapidshare.com/files/3683934...ng_ranges.xlsx"I'm confused by the link, can't see how to download.I would honestly advise against spreadsheets. For one, they won't calculate it correctly. You can't just do raise/calling range divided by opening range to see how often your jam will get called - it matters whether you have an ace or not, for example. Secondly, I've found people who use spreadsheets like this to come to bad conclusions based on assuming too much.For 3bet shoving I would really study the articles I've written about jamming 20bb deep against a random, and jamming against someone with an increased opening frequency. That's going to be better than just spreadsheets. "2. What type of hands do you limp at 20BB deep against a) readless b) aggressive reg c) passive fish?"I don't limp much readless 20bb deep. Against an aggressive reg, middling hands that can limp/call a 3x are often great to limp instead of raise/fold. Against a passive fish, it depends how loose he is. If he's loose pre and post, limping in with junk can be the best play. If he's tight and passive, I'll raise my junk."3. What is your 3betting (lets say from t40 to t100 or t120) calling range against a) readless b) aggressive reg c) passive fish?"Let me give you some examples. With A9o, I'd jam readless or against the aggressive reg, but fold against the passive fish. With QJo, I'd call readless and against the aggressive reg, but fold against the passive fish. With JTo, I'd fold readless and against the passive fish, and call against the agressive reg. With 75s, I fold to 120 readless and against a passive, but likely jam against an aggressive reg who is 3bet/folding a lot. This is a question that's too dynamic just to say "here are my ranges". "4. What is you plan against an average reg when you call very wide from the BB? Do you c/r a very high percentage? If yes, on which kind of boards? What does your c/calling range looks like?"Again, I think you're looking at things way too simply here. Our c/r percentage on the flop just depends on his opening frequency, his c-betting frequency, and how often he plays back without hands. So sometimes, yes, I c/r a high percentage, and sometimes I barely c/r at all. "5. When do you start calling according to Nash?"The shorter you get the better of an approximation it becomes. I think especially under 8bb it's a very good guide for how wide to call."6. Serkules - What is he doing better/different than the rest?"He's not afraid to take unorthadox lines when he believes the 2+2 consensus is wrong about something. He is always looking for creative ways to contest pots and get value where autopilot would fail. He also just has good discipline and solid fundamental ranges. It's also exceedingly likely by the math of it all that he's run well in his ST career, but no shame in that. "7. I come back from the US in November. How long do you think Hyperturbos on Stars will be profitable (lets say 2-4 % ROI)?"Impossible to say, people have been predicting the demise of STs forever. I think they'll be profitable for quite a good amount of time (years). "8. Do you know ST on Merge? Are they as beatable as the ones on FT/Stars?"They're not, but you do have positive expectation in playing them.

zZzTILT's picture
Thanks for your

Thanks for your answers.Here's a new link for the ranges: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=S2WSO27DI don't wanna make spreadsheets for 3bet shoving. These ranges I want to use to see how light I can call 3bet jams and openjams according to his 3bet / opening percentage. I know this is only a vague indication because 15 % 3bet is never gonna be the same exact range but i want to have some idea to get more familiar with calling ranges. It would really help me a lot if you could give me your evaluation of them."4. What is you plan against an average reg when you call very wide from the BB? Do you c/r a very high percentage? If yes, on which kind of boards? What does your c/calling range looks like?"Again, I think you're looking at things way too simply here."I know these situations are very dependant on gameflow and reads but if I c/c a wide range from the bb I need a general gameplan what to do vs "unknown". That's why I asked you about yours.Also one last quick question I thought of today: You said in this forum that one of your biggest edge comes from minraising a wide range against regs who 3bet jam / call to tight 10-15bb deep. Lets say if he flats, he doesnt c/r light or anything like that, so cbets / barrels are highly profitable. He also doesnt 3bet more than 50 %. Can't I just raise 100 % in this case because the raise is in itself profitable? 

mersenneary's picture
I mean, it's going to depend

I mean, it's going to depend a lot on stack size, and most people don't jam top x%, they jam good hands and bad hands whenever they feel like it, which makes for a very different calculation. I would download propokertools and evaluate based on more specific situations rather than looking for more universial theories about it.The question about what to do after calling OOP or calling the flop OOP is just too broad to give a very satisfying answer. In general, though, I would say it's OK to have a pretty weak check/calling range, because most opponents don't bluff enough. Against the ones who do, you can expand your check/raising range or call down more often."Can't I just raise 100 % in this case because the raise is in itself profitable?" Yes.

mersenneary's picture
Back to your 1st question, if

Back to your 1st question, if you haven't seen the fasttrack video from May that went up on HUSNG.com, that helps answer a lot of these questions about what 3bet ranges to expect in a more sufficiently in-depth manner. Let me know if you need me to send the footage to you via Skype.

zZzTILT's picture
"I mean, it's going to depend

"I mean, it's going to depend a lot on stack size, and most people don't jam top x%, they jam good hands and bad hands whenever they feel like it, which makes for a very different calculation. I would download propokertools and evaluate based on more specific situations rather than looking for more universial theories about it."Yeah, you're probably right. To many variables to do a solid calculation. At least for someone like who doesnt have a degree in math. :)Regarding the footage: looks good. I wanted to buy another premium account anyway so I'll check it out then.

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