dont mean to hijack the thread, but in the same spirit as jhubs last post, i wonder, if ud have any pointers to counter spankykirky hes giving me a REALLY HARD time at 200s, or maybe u have some jhub?
As for spankykirky, I've only played him once when we simultaneously registered & just felt like playing one instead of chopping. If he's actually sitting you a lot then you could probably use my plan for rams.Also, I talk to him on AIM so I can let him know you're not an easy mark if you want, although he should have it figured out pretty soon. I'm actually surprised he sits you, or does he just not chop when you simultaneously register?
By the way - I swear this wasn't just an excuse to bring this up - but I'd love to use your results as a success story of the program and talk them up a bit (obviously, the program was only a small part of your success, but I'd like to think it contributed) :)Would you be alright with that?
Lol for clarification I wasn't actually going to tell rams to GTFO. I just meant play him til he stops. I think most regs know who I am from 6 mans on FTP or other sites & if they sit me they figure out I'm not some random fish after a few games.cfish & da_professional sit me at $500s but I didn't really consider them top regs, although they're obv reasonable. I'm very surprised kotik sits you. iseeyouthrough hasn't sat me in a while but maybe he just hasn't seen the fish sitting in the lobby. As far as your brag post, that's why i unblocked my stats the other day. I was hoping maybe someone like rams might notice & stop sitting me. I don't want to make videos though, as I've already turned down everyone for 6 max. I'm sure HU are much better offers but I don't expect sites to come knocking on my door anytime soon for that. Actually, I might have to start making 6 man vids now that I'm playing HU & it's certainly something I've been thinking about. I also started up a blog to promote myself while playing 6 mans, although that was more to get a deal w/ a site. It worked & I got a 75% lifetime rakeback deal w/ Cake, which is basically worthless now as their site is going completely down the tubes. :( Unfortunately, FTP isn't exactly in the market for American online SNG players to promote their site.
As for using my results as a success story, no I don't want you to because that might bring more players into the program that I have to wait for games with at high stakes, but ya obv you can use them. :) Sharkscope is actually missing almost 500 HU games of mine & showing 1% less ROI & $7K less profit, but they use avg. ROI so I might just be a high stakes luckbox. I have to admit, my 1st impressions weren't the greatest, partly because I'm ST specialized, but man was I wrong. This program has been absolute gold. I'm so much better now than when I started mixing in HU just last month. Hell, I'm way better now than when I was a week ago, and both my ROI and adjusted ROI are agreeing with that, although admittedly I got some good action at $350s & $500s this weekend. I also do a lot of late game math away from the table, coming from single table SNGs, & still watch vids but the advice I've gotten hear far outweighs any of that. I was also planning on having 1 coach per week do HH reviews, just to make sure I'm not missing anything, but so far I've only gotten one from itried. I've been debating on switching from 6 mans to HU for a long time now, but I'm such a change nit. I had always done very well at HU in 6 mans but took it to a whole nother level after I started watching your vids and had an EV bb/100 of about 7.5 HU in 6 mans. I think the ROFL vid was the most helpful at the time. I decided it was time to stop being a nit & I think it was perfect timing w/ your program.Thanks a lot. Again, this program has been absolute GOLD!-Hub
How are these for general raise/calling ranges 15bb deep?vs standard: 77+,A8+,KT+,K9s+QJo,QTsvs aggro 3bettor: 77+,A8+,K9+,K8s+,QT+,Q9s,JT,J9sThis assumes we're shoving our 22-66 & A2-A7
vs aggro 3bettor I'm raise/calling A6o+, A5s+, K8o, K7s, K6s as well, but it depends just how aggro. I do think having JTo/J9s in your initial range but not K8o/K7s is a mistake.Against a reshoving range like 22+,A2s+,K3s+,Q5s+,J7s+,T7s+,97s+,87s,A2o+,K7o+,Q8o+,J9o+,T9o, here are some equity from some hands at the borderline, from worst to best:JTo: 42.5%J9s: 42.7%K8o: 43.2%K6s: 44.1%K7s: 45.0%
"Also, I talk to him on AIM so I can let him know you're not an easy mark if you want, although he should have it figured out pretty soon. I'm actually surprised he sits you, or does he just not chop when you simultaneously register?" would be cool, im up 2 bi on him over 8 games, but he is playing more solid to say the least and am genuinely impressed by his creativeness, and how hes putting me into tough spots, it might sound silly, but i dont feel like all that much spots are hard, esp not in shorter ST, compared to playing deep stack poker at the deepstacks at 500s vs for example ugh whats his name again lol, cant think of it but the guyw ith 24% roi, but im having trouble with spankys aggro play alot of the time, and im genuinely impressed, he sits me as soon as i sit 200 lobbys, but doesnt sit me at 100 lobbys, and told me he thinks im a great player in chat, so i think its more of a trying to protect the lobbys vs a new reg, then a , i have an edge kinda thing, and as far as im concerned atm, he can have it for a bit longer, i feel like itll be +EV to just stay chilling at 100s and only play some 200s/350s now and then after all, if i have a 10K month im already superbly happy :D and im still quite far behind you and mers imo, so gotta put in more workkkkk :D
JTo is like your prime flat-a-3x type hand. Aces are all going to be jams, basically strong but not super strong middling connected stuff is going to be what you want to flat. Feel free to ask about more specific hands.
iseeyouthrough is an interesting cat, that's for sure. 88 is the only hand he reps well, but 88 will bet the turn a decent bit. Your "request time" actually may have thrown him off on the turn enough to check with a Ax type hand A8/AK, and then decides to jam on the river. Anything you do have for value (even 2x) is correct to check the river, so that should decrease his bluff frequency. I also think all-in is a suboptimal bluff size here which decreases the chances of it being one.That said, he's definitely capable of doing this with air knowing that the vast majority of your range is too weak to do anything about it. It's close enough but I fold. A5 I think we have to call given reduced combos of big hands and the fact that he can occasionally have big aces and being a weirdo.
23bb effective, bb20I limp, H2olga raises to 60, I callFlop (120)Ks7s6sH2olga checks, I bet 61 (obv far superior to 60), H2olga check/raises all inHow light are you stacking off here against an aggro player like olga?Brag: I posted 2 actual hands rather than general situations in 2 days
The K76 hand is a little weird. If I'm betting, it's usually with a very clear plan of whether I'm getting it in against aggression. What hand did you bet and were unsure about? I think I'd flat the 86 as standard - he's going to be bet/calling a ton because of how few made hands you rep As for regs, you can tell a lot more quickly based on play that stats, but I'd take 100-150 games with no EV difference as indicative as maybe that reg isn't as bad as you thought, etc.
The K76 hand I had 87 & i really didn't think he'd check/raise a king on that board risking a free card. The big overbet also didn't seem likely for a made flush. I figured his hand range consisted mostly of high spades & combo draws.
I'm still trying to figure out which regs are going to be worth playing for a while to gain their respect at $500s/$1Ks & which regs it's going to take ridiculously long, where I should probably wait until I'm more established in HU to take a stand against.Right now I think I should wait against H2olga, riyyc25, & R-quaresma, & livb112 as they seem to defend their lobbies & sit basically everyone except maybe each other in some cases. Some of these guys might never give in, especially livb.I was wondering about xqsays & RunItTrim. I don't feel overmatched by either but I think it's kind of silly to sit behind them in $500s/$1Ks & end up 4 tabling them when I could be playing fish at $350s, $200s, & $100s. Are these players you think will give in like rams85 seems to have done or are they extreme lobby defenders. Is their anyone else you would put in the above group of extreme lobby defenders.
When you 3bet a reg 20-25bb deep w/ a bluff hand, are you generally cbetting or checking air on a flop like JTx 2 tone or T9x 2 tone? If you check, does it change if the flop is rainbow? I figure those flops probably hit their flatting range pretty well.
HeyReally sucks I missed the skype session, looking forward to watching it on vid.Just wanna say that I followed this thread closely and found it very useful, thx jhub and mers.Gl!
Are you still reshoving 22+,A2+ 30bb deep?What kind of range are you generally raise/calling a 30bb reshove with readless?Do you still 3x rr/call KQ/KJ type hands this deep?I'm covering my bases in case I try out any other structures during the off month. :)
Low pairs are still jam or flat hands, you'll generally want to be making non-allin 3bets with your strong aces and flat your weaker aces.I'm assuming you're talking about cap. I don't really know what cap people do as standard, so it's hard for me to guess a readless raise/calling range. I assume it's actually pretty close to 25bb except you'll have to fold 22 and maybe a couple of the weaker aces.Becomes much closer with KQ/KJ, I think I'd prefer a 2.5x/fold in most circumstances.
"How are these for general raise/calling ranges 15bb deep? vs standard: 77+,A8+,KT+,K9s+QJo,QTs vs aggro 3bettor: 77+,A8+,K9+,K8s+,QT+,Q9s,JT,J9s This assumes we're shoving our 22-66 & A2-A7"
Short question about this shoving range 15bb deep, s. post #56 What’s about the SC like QJs, QTs, JTs, T9s, 89s. In the sb video, Mers openshoves them 12bb deep. Are 15bb too deep to shove them? Of course limping is also an option, but I played some villains, who attacked my limps a lot with about 15bb deep.
I think we're too deep to openjam those. I think QJs/QTs is going to be a minraise/calling hand in general, and JTs/T9s/89s I probably limp as standard at those stack depths. If they're attacking limps by 3xing, then i still limp, limp/calling is fine by me, if they're jamming over a limp a ton, then minraise/folding with 89s is often a better option depending on his 3betting range. I think it's pretty unusual for openjamming to have the best expectation that deep, because the looser they are against limps or minraises, the looser they generally are against openshoves too.
Brag: After reading your most recent blog I realized I had the longest thread. :)Mers, How do we get the recorded group coaching sessions? I haven't seen anything about that lately. Thanks
From your HH review:Full Tilt Poker Game #29895386198: $500 + $6 Heads Up Sit & Go (232376797), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 09:17:16 CT - 2011/04/14 [10:17:16 ET - 2011/04/14]Seat 1: H2Olga (613)Seat 2: jhub30 (387)jhub30 posts the small blind of 15H2Olga posts the big blind of 30The button is in seat #2*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to jhub30 [Qd 9s]jhub30 raises to 60 Mers: I'd be curious what made you minraise/call here but not with K8/QJ, I agree with minraise/call again. MY LAST WEEK OF PLAYING HU I HAD BEEN ANALYZING PEOPLE'S RANGES AT DIFFERENT STACK DEPTHS. H2OLGA 3BET ME WIDE W/ MORE THAN 12BB BUT ONCE I GOT BELOW 12BB HIS 3BET % WAS LOW & VERY LOW 10BB & LESS. SINCE HE CALLS JAMS WIDE I CHOSE TO JAM K8 & QJ SINCE I HAD ABOUT 11.5 & 10.5BB. I HAD ALSO BEGAN 2XING MORE JUNK HANDS W/ LESS THAN 12BB. ONCE HE ADJUSTED & STARTED 3BETTING WIDER AT THAT STACK DEPTH THEN I'D START RAISE/CALLING MORE HANDS AGAIN. HOWEVER, THE DOJ JUMPED IN TO PROTECT OUR COUNTRY BEFORE THAT HAPPENED.ALSO, OBV THERE COULD BE SAMPLE SIZE ISSUES W/ THE ANALYSIS AT DIFFERENT STACK DEPTHS BUT I HAD PLAYED ABOUT 50 SNGs AGAINST HIM & IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY THERE WAS A PRETTY LARGE GAP IN THE 3BET#S. I'M GUESSING THAT WHEN HE HAD RESHOVED IN THE PAST AT THOSE STACK DEPTHS THAT I JUST HAPPENED TO HAVE BIGGER HANDS A LARGER PERCENTAGE OF THE TIME THAN MY ACTUAL RANGE SUGGESTS, OR HE JUST HAD SOME KIND OF SELECTIVE MEMORY.\IF ANY OTHER ST PLAYERS GOT HH REVIEWS I'M WILLING TO SWAP.THANKS,HUB
wtf @ caps. I struggle to understand how that would have happened.Interesting on advanced reads, makes sense. A few of those higher stakes guys can be tight against minraises 10bb deep vs regs because they suspect them to be mostly inducing hands. This is the time to expand minraise/folding range until they re-adjust.
Full Tilt Poker Game #29899309928: $500 + $6 Heads Up Sit & Go (232409709), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 12:26:36 CT - 2011/04/14 [13:26:36 ET - 2011/04/14]Seat 1: RunItTrim (470)Seat 2: jhub30 (530)jhub30 posts the small blind of 15RunItTrim posts the big blind of 30The button is in seat #2*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to jhub30 [5h Jc]jhub30 folds Mers: Way too strong to openfold, I think. This was another read-based situation. His fold bb to steal 16-20 bb deep was 23 & his 3bet was 38.5. If he had these stats over a large sample we'd only be seeing the flop about 50% of the time when we raised a junk hand. I think we should J5o, expand our raise/calling range, limp middling hands, etc.. My question is w/ such extreme stats for that stack depth, how big of a sample would you need before you dumped a hand like J5o.
Full Tilt Poker Game #29899312893: $500 + $6 Heads Up Sit & Go (232409709), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 12:26:43 CT - 2011/04/14 [13:26:43 ET - 2011/04/14]Seat 1: RunItTrim (485)Seat 2: jhub30 (515)RunItTrim posts the small blind of 15jhub30 posts the big blind of 30The button is in seat #1*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to jhub30 [9c Js]RunItTrim raises to 60jhub30 has 15 seconds left to actjhub30 has requested TIMEjhub30 raises to 515, and is all in Mers: This implies a pretty wide minraising range for jamming to be better than flatting, but it's close.In the games we played he was raising somewhere between 75% & 90% of hands at this stack depth & folding to a 3bet about 60-70% of the time.I believe these ranges would make a shove here somewhere between +0.33bb & + more than 1bb. I haven't played HU since Black Friday so I'm rusty on the expectation of flatting different hands but I would think that shoving has the higher expectation in this case w/ those stats. My question is again about sample size. How many hands would you want to see this behavior over before you would start shoving J9 instead of flatting?
When considering boarderline raising hands on the button in a ST what % of the time do you think you will need to see the flop and/or successfully c-bet to make 2xing better than folding? I know it's a pretty general question. As a standard I raise any suited hand & hands like J5o on the btn until we're shallow but I do fold them against certain players. I'm just trying to get a better idea of whether I'm being too tight in my adjustments.
Full Tilt Poker Game #29906085189: $500 + $6 Heads Up Sit & Go (232460128), Table 1 - 10/20 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:43:38 CT - 2011/04/14 [17:43:38 ET - 2011/04/14]Seat 1: jhub30 (500)Seat 2: Wag Dodge (500)jhub30 posts the small blind of 10Wag Dodge posts the big blind of 20The button is in seat #1*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to jhub30 [Js 5c]jhub30 has 15 seconds left to actjhub30 has requested TIMEjhub30 folds Mers: Do you hate Michael Jackson or something? No:
Full Tilt Poker Game #29906305782: $500 + $6 Heads Up Sit & Go (232461407), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:51:48 CT - 2011/04/14 [17:51:48 ET - 2011/04/14]Seat 1: jhub30 (560)Seat 2: Wag Dodge (440)Wag Dodge posts the small blind of 15jhub30 posts the big blind of 30The button is in seat #2*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to jhub30 [4c 6c]Wag Dodge raises to 60jhub30 has 15 seconds left to actjhub30 has requested TIMEjhub30 folds Mers: I'd play this, either by jamming or calling. Usually jamming.Ya I'm pretty damn sure a jam is +EV vs him here. As far as flatting, I started out HU rarely flatting w/ <15bb because of the advice in 1 of your vids. I then noticed you changed your mind on that advice somewhat & I started calling w/ prime flatting hands & sometimes wider against fish. However, I'm sure this was probably still too tight. How wide might you flat here if we assumed flatting was better than jamming?
Fair enough on the reads for J5, that seems like enough to openfold a wide range until he re-adjusts.+0.3 is definitely better than flatting with J9. I wouldn't use the "fold to 3bet" stat that much though, just pick a reasonable calling range, it's probably going to be more accurate even if you have a fairly decent sample.As for the BB VPIP needed to raise junk, 50% automatically makes it better than folding with no postflop equity, so you need something above that. I think people like RIT are definitely fine to fold a wider range against, you seem to have a decent intuition about it.And yeah, if the J9o is a jam, the 64s is going to be a jam. I honestly am still trying to figure out the math on wide flatting ranges 10-15bb deep - Serk's prowess has made me wonder - but definitely against wide openers, it's mostly just going to be a jam.
Readless, something like A9o+ A8s+ 22+. Basically just chopping a few aces off of our 25bb range. Against a wide 3bettor, depends how wide, but it can be even any ace, any pair, KQ, and some suited connectors.
I've been running into a couple regs who 3bet 2.5x or 3x about 50% of the time 20-30bb deep.What kind of hands are you 4betting 30bb,25bb, & 20bb deep against this type of opponent? How wide are you flatting the 3bets? Are you widening your limping range even more than against a standard aggro 3bettor? If so, could you give some examples of hands you would add to your limping range?Thanks.
If they're really 3betting 50% of the time, have a field day jamming every Ax, Kx suited type hands, and of course pairs against this type of opponent, in addition to some suited connectors if he shows he has a fold button. Definitely widen your limping range to include hands that can't raise/call but can limp/call, so T8o is a good example there. Although god, 50% is just so big, that you can probably even raise/jam a hand like T8o if he has a fold button. Just really make your raising range quite strong and force him to adjust.
Yeah that's pretty much what I had been doing raise/jamming hands like A2o,K%s,Q9o,T8s,etc... & limping a lot more. They eventually adjusted over the weekend.
Do we really want this player to adjust away from 3betting 50%?? If we tighten our preflop raising range and he continues 3betting 50%, I would think he can't find hands often enough to exploit us if we are 4bet shoving the range mentioned above. It's going to be obviously high variance games, but it seems super +ev to me if we adjust correctly.
Hokie,I've already read the Skates article on inflection points but thanks for the suggestion. As for that flatting question, it was probably 2-3 months old.I wasn't trying to get our opponent to adjust away from 3betting 50%. I was just trying to figure out the best adjustment for me to make. However, after we make the proper adjustments any competent opponent is going to re-adjust over time. Some just adjust quicker than others and we make more money off of those who take longer to make their adjustments.
dont mean to hijack the thread, but in the same spirit as jhubs last post, i wonder, if ud have any pointers to counter spankykirky hes giving me a REALLY HARD time at 200s, or maybe u have some jhub?
As for spankykirky, I've only played him once when we simultaneously registered & just felt like playing one instead of chopping. If he's actually sitting you a lot then you could probably use my plan for rams.Also, I talk to him on AIM so I can let him know you're not an easy mark if you want, although he should have it figured out pretty soon. I'm actually surprised he sits you, or does he just not chop when you simultaneously register?
By the way - I swear this wasn't just an excuse to bring this up - but I'd love to use your results as a success story of the program and talk them up a bit (obviously, the program was only a small part of your success, but I'd like to think it contributed) :)Would you be alright with that?
Lol for clarification I wasn't actually going to tell rams to GTFO. I just meant play him til he stops. I think most regs know who I am from 6 mans on FTP or other sites & if they sit me they figure out I'm not some random fish after a few games.cfish & da_professional sit me at $500s but I didn't really consider them top regs, although they're obv reasonable. I'm very surprised kotik sits you. iseeyouthrough hasn't sat me in a while but maybe he just hasn't seen the fish sitting in the lobby. As far as your brag post, that's why i unblocked my stats the other day. I was hoping maybe someone like rams might notice & stop sitting me. I don't want to make videos though, as I've already turned down everyone for 6 max. I'm sure HU are much better offers but I don't expect sites to come knocking on my door anytime soon for that. Actually, I might have to start making 6 man vids now that I'm playing HU & it's certainly something I've been thinking about. I also started up a blog to promote myself while playing 6 mans, although that was more to get a deal w/ a site. It worked & I got a 75% lifetime rakeback deal w/ Cake, which is basically worthless now as their site is going completely down the tubes. :( Unfortunately, FTP isn't exactly in the market for American online SNG players to promote their site.
As for using my results as a success story, no I don't want you to because that might bring more players into the program that I have to wait for games with at high stakes, but ya obv you can use them. :) Sharkscope is actually missing almost 500 HU games of mine & showing 1% less ROI & $7K less profit, but they use avg. ROI so I might just be a high stakes luckbox. I have to admit, my 1st impressions weren't the greatest, partly because I'm ST specialized, but man was I wrong. This program has been absolute gold. I'm so much better now than when I started mixing in HU just last month. Hell, I'm way better now than when I was a week ago, and both my ROI and adjusted ROI are agreeing with that, although admittedly I got some good action at $350s & $500s this weekend. I also do a lot of late game math away from the table, coming from single table SNGs, & still watch vids but the advice I've gotten hear far outweighs any of that. I was also planning on having 1 coach per week do HH reviews, just to make sure I'm not missing anything, but so far I've only gotten one from itried. I've been debating on switching from 6 mans to HU for a long time now, but I'm such a change nit. I had always done very well at HU in 6 mans but took it to a whole nother level after I started watching your vids and had an EV bb/100 of about 7.5 HU in 6 mans. I think the ROFL vid was the most helpful at the time. I decided it was time to stop being a nit & I think it was perfect timing w/ your program.Thanks a lot. Again, this program has been absolute GOLD!-Hub
How are these for general raise/calling ranges 15bb deep?vs standard: 77+,A8+,KT+,K9s+QJo,QTsvs aggro 3bettor: 77+,A8+,K9+,K8s+,QT+,Q9s,JT,J9sThis assumes we're shoving our 22-66 & A2-A7
vs aggro 3bettor I'm raise/calling A6o+, A5s+, K8o, K7s, K6s as well, but it depends just how aggro. I do think having JTo/J9s in your initial range but not K8o/K7s is a mistake.Against a reshoving range like 22+,A2s+,K3s+,Q5s+,J7s+,T7s+,97s+,87s,A2o+,K7o+,Q8o+,J9o+,T9o, here are some equity from some hands at the borderline, from worst to best:JTo: 42.5%J9s: 42.7%K8o: 43.2%K6s: 44.1%K7s: 45.0%
"Also, I talk to him on AIM so I can let him know you're not an easy mark if you want, although he should have it figured out pretty soon. I'm actually surprised he sits you, or does he just not chop when you simultaneously register?" would be cool, im up 2 bi on him over 8 games, but he is playing more solid to say the least and am genuinely impressed by his creativeness, and how hes putting me into tough spots, it might sound silly, but i dont feel like all that much spots are hard, esp not in shorter ST, compared to playing deep stack poker at the deepstacks at 500s vs for example ugh whats his name again lol, cant think of it but the guyw ith 24% roi, but im having trouble with spankys aggro play alot of the time, and im genuinely impressed, he sits me as soon as i sit 200 lobbys, but doesnt sit me at 100 lobbys, and told me he thinks im a great player in chat, so i think its more of a trying to protect the lobbys vs a new reg, then a , i have an edge kinda thing, and as far as im concerned atm, he can have it for a bit longer, i feel like itll be +EV to just stay chilling at 100s and only play some 200s/350s now and then after all, if i have a 10K month im already superbly happy :D and im still quite far behind you and mers imo, so gotta put in more workkkkk :D
Vs a player who opens 50% with a 3x STANDARD raise size, which hands would you prefer to flat rather than jam with 20BBs? With 25BBs?
JTo is like your prime flat-a-3x type hand. Aces are all going to be jams, basically strong but not super strong middling connected stuff is going to be what you want to flat. Feel free to ask about more specific hands.
http://www.handconverter.com/hands/12753661st hand of a $1K ST vs a winning reg...wtf is he repping & what's the weakest hand you call with?
iseeyouthrough is an interesting cat, that's for sure. 88 is the only hand he reps well, but 88 will bet the turn a decent bit. Your "request time" actually may have thrown him off on the turn enough to check with a Ax type hand A8/AK, and then decides to jam on the river. Anything you do have for value (even 2x) is correct to check the river, so that should decrease his bluff frequency. I also think all-in is a suboptimal bluff size here which decreases the chances of it being one.That said, he's definitely capable of doing this with air knowing that the vast majority of your range is too weak to do anything about it. It's close enough but I fold. A5 I think we have to call given reduced combos of big hands and the fact that he can occasionally have big aces and being a weirdo.
23bb effective, bb20I limp, H2olga raises to 60, I callFlop (120)Ks7s6sH2olga checks, I bet 61 (obv far superior to 60), H2olga check/raises all inHow light are you stacking off here against an aggro player like olga?Brag: I posted 2 actual hands rather than general situations in 2 days
22bb effective, bb20I have 8c6cI limp, H2olga raises to 60, I callFlop (120)5h4h4sH2olga bets 60, I raise & call his all in 4bet. Standard?
How many games of adjusted ROI/profit would you want to see vs 1 player to be pretty confident you had an edge on another reg?
The K76 hand is a little weird. If I'm betting, it's usually with a very clear plan of whether I'm getting it in against aggression. What hand did you bet and were unsure about? I think I'd flat the 86 as standard - he's going to be bet/calling a ton because of how few made hands you rep As for regs, you can tell a lot more quickly based on play that stats, but I'd take 100-150 games with no EV difference as indicative as maybe that reg isn't as bad as you thought, etc.
The K76 hand I had 87 & i really didn't think he'd check/raise a king on that board risking a free card. The big overbet also didn't seem likely for a made flush. I figured his hand range consisted mostly of high spades & combo draws.
I'm still trying to figure out which regs are going to be worth playing for a while to gain their respect at $500s/$1Ks & which regs it's going to take ridiculously long, where I should probably wait until I'm more established in HU to take a stand against.Right now I think I should wait against H2olga, riyyc25, & R-quaresma, & livb112 as they seem to defend their lobbies & sit basically everyone except maybe each other in some cases. Some of these guys might never give in, especially livb.I was wondering about xqsays & RunItTrim. I don't feel overmatched by either but I think it's kind of silly to sit behind them in $500s/$1Ks & end up 4 tabling them when I could be playing fish at $350s, $200s, & $100s. Are these players you think will give in like rams85 seems to have done or are they extreme lobby defenders. Is their anyone else you would put in the above group of extreme lobby defenders.
xqsays/runittrim I have a total of 50 hands on, I expect they'll move on somewhat quickly. There's nobody else I'd put in that quartet.
When you 3bet a reg 20-25bb deep w/ a bluff hand, are you generally cbetting or checking air on a flop like JTx 2 tone or T9x 2 tone? If you check, does it change if the flop is rainbow? I figure those flops probably hit their flatting range pretty well.
I usually check both of those boards (and rainbow), but not 100% sure to be honest. It's a good question.
HeyReally sucks I missed the skype session, looking forward to watching it on vid.Just wanna say that I followed this thread closely and found it very useful, thx jhub and mers.Gl!
Are you still reshoving 22+,A2+ 30bb deep?What kind of range are you generally raise/calling a 30bb reshove with readless?Do you still 3x rr/call KQ/KJ type hands this deep?I'm covering my bases in case I try out any other structures during the off month. :)
Low pairs are still jam or flat hands, you'll generally want to be making non-allin 3bets with your strong aces and flat your weaker aces.I'm assuming you're talking about cap. I don't really know what cap people do as standard, so it's hard for me to guess a readless raise/calling range. I assume it's actually pretty close to 25bb except you'll have to fold 22 and maybe a couple of the weaker aces.Becomes much closer with KQ/KJ, I think I'd prefer a 2.5x/fold in most circumstances.
Short question about this shoving range 15bb deep, s. post #56 What’s about the SC like QJs, QTs, JTs, T9s, 89s. In the sb video, Mers openshoves them 12bb deep. Are 15bb too deep to shove them? Of course limping is also an option, but I played some villains, who attacked my limps a lot with about 15bb deep.
I think we're too deep to openjam those. I think QJs/QTs is going to be a minraise/calling hand in general, and JTs/T9s/89s I probably limp as standard at those stack depths. If they're attacking limps by 3xing, then i still limp, limp/calling is fine by me, if they're jamming over a limp a ton, then minraise/folding with 89s is often a better option depending on his 3betting range. I think it's pretty unusual for openjamming to have the best expectation that deep, because the looser they are against limps or minraises, the looser they generally are against openshoves too.
Brag: After reading your most recent blog I realized I had the longest thread. :)Mers, How do we get the recorded group coaching sessions? I haven't seen anything about that lately. Thanks
This thread needs bump.But why I am writing is that: What is that ROFL video?
This thread needs bump.But why I am writing is that: What is that ROFL video?
It's my small blind video here:http://www.husng.com/content/mersenneary-video-6-advanced-end-game-play-...btw, you should create your own thread and start asking questions! :)
Let me know when you want your private coaching session, btw.https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ArheGtnXQJ2MdHMzcnpBMi0tMmo1NDI...The last week of the month is going to be really hectic, so now is better.
From your HH review:Full Tilt Poker Game #29895386198: $500 + $6 Heads Up Sit & Go (232376797), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 09:17:16 CT - 2011/04/14 [10:17:16 ET - 2011/04/14]Seat 1: H2Olga (613)Seat 2: jhub30 (387)jhub30 posts the small blind of 15H2Olga posts the big blind of 30The button is in seat #2*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to jhub30 [Qd 9s]jhub30 raises to 60 Mers: I'd be curious what made you minraise/call here but not with K8/QJ, I agree with minraise/call again. MY LAST WEEK OF PLAYING HU I HAD BEEN ANALYZING PEOPLE'S RANGES AT DIFFERENT STACK DEPTHS. H2OLGA 3BET ME WIDE W/ MORE THAN 12BB BUT ONCE I GOT BELOW 12BB HIS 3BET % WAS LOW & VERY LOW 10BB & LESS. SINCE HE CALLS JAMS WIDE I CHOSE TO JAM K8 & QJ SINCE I HAD ABOUT 11.5 & 10.5BB. I HAD ALSO BEGAN 2XING MORE JUNK HANDS W/ LESS THAN 12BB. ONCE HE ADJUSTED & STARTED 3BETTING WIDER AT THAT STACK DEPTH THEN I'D START RAISE/CALLING MORE HANDS AGAIN. HOWEVER, THE DOJ JUMPED IN TO PROTECT OUR COUNTRY BEFORE THAT HAPPENED.ALSO, OBV THERE COULD BE SAMPLE SIZE ISSUES W/ THE ANALYSIS AT DIFFERENT STACK DEPTHS BUT I HAD PLAYED ABOUT 50 SNGs AGAINST HIM & IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY THERE WAS A PRETTY LARGE GAP IN THE 3BET#S. I'M GUESSING THAT WHEN HE HAD RESHOVED IN THE PAST AT THOSE STACK DEPTHS THAT I JUST HAPPENED TO HAVE BIGGER HANDS A LARGER PERCENTAGE OF THE TIME THAN MY ACTUAL RANGE SUGGESTS, OR HE JUST HAD SOME KIND OF SELECTIVE MEMORY.\IF ANY OTHER ST PLAYERS GOT HH REVIEWS I'M WILLING TO SWAP.THANKS,HUB
wtf @ caps. I struggle to understand how that would have happened.Interesting on advanced reads, makes sense. A few of those higher stakes guys can be tight against minraises 10bb deep vs regs because they suspect them to be mostly inducing hands. This is the time to expand minraise/folding range until they re-adjust.
JHub, does the HEM effective stack feature work correctly now? (Is that how your breaking down H2olga's 3bet % at <12bb ?)
Primo, yes that's what I used & I never had any probs. I'm new to HU though so never tried before April.
Full Tilt Poker Game #29899309928: $500 + $6 Heads Up Sit & Go (232409709), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 12:26:36 CT - 2011/04/14 [13:26:36 ET - 2011/04/14]Seat 1: RunItTrim (470)Seat 2: jhub30 (530)jhub30 posts the small blind of 15RunItTrim posts the big blind of 30The button is in seat #2*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to jhub30 [5h Jc]jhub30 folds Mers: Way too strong to openfold, I think. This was another read-based situation. His fold bb to steal 16-20 bb deep was 23 & his 3bet was 38.5. If he had these stats over a large sample we'd only be seeing the flop about 50% of the time when we raised a junk hand. I think we should J5o, expand our raise/calling range, limp middling hands, etc.. My question is w/ such extreme stats for that stack depth, how big of a sample would you need before you dumped a hand like J5o.
Full Tilt Poker Game #29899312893: $500 + $6 Heads Up Sit & Go (232409709), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 12:26:43 CT - 2011/04/14 [13:26:43 ET - 2011/04/14]Seat 1: RunItTrim (485)Seat 2: jhub30 (515)RunItTrim posts the small blind of 15jhub30 posts the big blind of 30The button is in seat #1*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to jhub30 [9c Js]RunItTrim raises to 60jhub30 has 15 seconds left to actjhub30 has requested TIMEjhub30 raises to 515, and is all in Mers: This implies a pretty wide minraising range for jamming to be better than flatting, but it's close.In the games we played he was raising somewhere between 75% & 90% of hands at this stack depth & folding to a 3bet about 60-70% of the time.I believe these ranges would make a shove here somewhere between +0.33bb & + more than 1bb. I haven't played HU since Black Friday so I'm rusty on the expectation of flatting different hands but I would think that shoving has the higher expectation in this case w/ those stats. My question is again about sample size. How many hands would you want to see this behavior over before you would start shoving J9 instead of flatting?
When considering boarderline raising hands on the button in a ST what % of the time do you think you will need to see the flop and/or successfully c-bet to make 2xing better than folding? I know it's a pretty general question. As a standard I raise any suited hand & hands like J5o on the btn until we're shallow but I do fold them against certain players. I'm just trying to get a better idea of whether I'm being too tight in my adjustments.
Full Tilt Poker Game #29906085189: $500 + $6 Heads Up Sit & Go (232460128), Table 1 - 10/20 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:43:38 CT - 2011/04/14 [17:43:38 ET - 2011/04/14]Seat 1: jhub30 (500)Seat 2: Wag Dodge (500)jhub30 posts the small blind of 10Wag Dodge posts the big blind of 20The button is in seat #1*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to jhub30 [Js 5c]jhub30 has 15 seconds left to actjhub30 has requested TIMEjhub30 folds Mers: Do you hate Michael Jackson or something? No:
Full Tilt Poker Game #29906305782: $500 + $6 Heads Up Sit & Go (232461407), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:51:48 CT - 2011/04/14 [17:51:48 ET - 2011/04/14]Seat 1: jhub30 (560)Seat 2: Wag Dodge (440)Wag Dodge posts the small blind of 15jhub30 posts the big blind of 30The button is in seat #2*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to jhub30 [4c 6c]Wag Dodge raises to 60jhub30 has 15 seconds left to actjhub30 has requested TIMEjhub30 folds Mers: I'd play this, either by jamming or calling. Usually jamming.Ya I'm pretty damn sure a jam is +EV vs him here. As far as flatting, I started out HU rarely flatting w/ <15bb because of the advice in 1 of your vids. I then noticed you changed your mind on that advice somewhat & I started calling w/ prime flatting hands & sometimes wider against fish. However, I'm sure this was probably still too tight. How wide might you flat here if we assumed flatting was better than jamming?
Fair enough on the reads for J5, that seems like enough to openfold a wide range until he re-adjusts.+0.3 is definitely better than flatting with J9. I wouldn't use the "fold to 3bet" stat that much though, just pick a reasonable calling range, it's probably going to be more accurate even if you have a fairly decent sample.As for the BB VPIP needed to raise junk, 50% automatically makes it better than folding with no postflop equity, so you need something above that. I think people like RIT are definitely fine to fold a wider range against, you seem to have a decent intuition about it.And yeah, if the J9o is a jam, the 64s is going to be a jam. I honestly am still trying to figure out the math on wide flatting ranges 10-15bb deep - Serk's prowess has made me wonder - but definitely against wide openers, it's mostly just going to be a jam.
30bb deep what hands are you shoving over a 2.5x & 3x 3bet? Readless? Vs a wide 3 bettor?
Readless, something like A9o+ A8s+ 22+. Basically just chopping a few aces off of our 25bb range. Against a wide 3bettor, depends how wide, but it can be even any ace, any pair, KQ, and some suited connectors.
I've been running into a couple regs who 3bet 2.5x or 3x about 50% of the time 20-30bb deep.What kind of hands are you 4betting 30bb,25bb, & 20bb deep against this type of opponent? How wide are you flatting the 3bets? Are you widening your limping range even more than against a standard aggro 3bettor? If so, could you give some examples of hands you would add to your limping range?Thanks.
If they're really 3betting 50% of the time, have a field day jamming every Ax, Kx suited type hands, and of course pairs against this type of opponent, in addition to some suited connectors if he shows he has a fold button. Definitely widen your limping range to include hands that can't raise/call but can limp/call, so T8o is a good example there. Although god, 50% is just so big, that you can probably even raise/jam a hand like T8o if he has a fold button. Just really make your raising range quite strong and force him to adjust.
Yeah that's pretty much what I had been doing raise/jamming hands like A2o,K%s,Q9o,T8s,etc... & limping a lot more. They eventually adjusted over the weekend.
Do we really want this player to adjust away from 3betting 50%?? If we tighten our preflop raising range and he continues 3betting 50%, I would think he can't find hands often enough to exploit us if we are 4bet shoving the range mentioned above. It's going to be obviously high variance games, but it seems super +ev to me if we adjust correctly.
You mentioned above in the 46s hand about flatting <15 deep. I'd recommend checking out Skates' article on endgame inflection points: http://www.husng.com/content/skates-points-critical-points-villains-3-betting-behavior
Hokie,I've already read the Skates article on inflection points but thanks for the suggestion. As for that flatting question, it was probably 2-3 months old.I wasn't trying to get our opponent to adjust away from 3betting 50%. I was just trying to figure out the best adjustment for me to make. However, after we make the proper adjustments any competent opponent is going to re-adjust over time. Some just adjust quicker than others and we make more money off of those who take longer to make their adjustments.
If somebody uses 2.5x or 2.25x as a standard raise size how much does that change your flatting range w/ less than 30bb?
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