Hey everyone, I'm very excited to be a part of this program - there's such a ton of info here! I have more experience in the Stars turbos structure, but at the moment I am playing $11.50 turbos at FTP. To kick off, here's a spot I am often unsure about. This is the third hand - in the first one he 3x-ed and I folded and in the 2nd one I min-raised and he folded. My idea was that flop is an easy c/c, esp. since he showed he could raise and so Ax is not a big part of his range. But how do I get value on the turn? If I check, he often checks behind, but if I bet, I can scare him away from the hand. <h1>No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players<br/>$11 + $0.50 Heads Up Sit & Go</h1>
<h2>Hand converted by <a href="http://husng.com/converter">the official HUSNG.com hand converter</a> </h2>
<table class="t1" cellspacing="4" cellpadding="2" border="0" >
<tr><td>BB</td><td>Hero</td><td><span class="bluenb">1500</span></td><td></td></tr>
<tr><td>SB</td><td>StraddleFish_J9</td><td><span class="bluenb">1500</span></td><td></td></tr>
</table>
<h3>Effective Stacks: 50bb</h3>
<h3>Blinds 15/30</h3> <p><b>Pre-Flop<b> (45, 2 players)</p>
<p><b>Hero is BB</b></p>
<p>
<img width=42 height=55 alt="dT" title="dT" src="http://weaktight.com/img/d5/dT.gif" />
<img width=42 height=55 alt="d8" title="d8" src="http://weaktight.com/img/d5/d8.gif" />
</p>
StraddleFish_J9 calls 15, Hero checks
<table width="100%">
</table>
<p>Flop (60, 2 players)</p>
<p>
<img width=42 height=55 alt="hA" title="hA" src="http://weaktight.com/img/d5/hA.gif" />
<img width=42 height=55 alt="d2" title="d2" src="http://weaktight.com/img/d5/d2.gif" />
<img width=42 height=55 alt="sT" title="sT" src="http://weaktight.com/img/d5/sT.gif" />
</p>
Hero bets 30, <span style="color:red"><b>StraddleFish_J9 raises to 90</b></span>, Hero calls 60 <table width="100%">
</table>
<p>Turn (240, 2 players)</p>
<p>
<img width=42 height=55 alt="cT" title="cT" src="http://weaktight.com/img/d5/cT.gif" />
</p>
Hero bets 150, <span style="color:grey"><i>StraddleFish_J9 folds</i></span> <table width="100%">
</table>
<p>Final Pot: 390</p>
<p>Hero wins <span class="blue" style="font-size:14px;">390 ( won +120 )</p>
<p>StraddleFish_J9 lost -120</p>
Oops. Well, I'll try to learn to use the converter here before posting the next HH. Here's this one in the raw form:Full Tilt Poker Game #30247123650: $11 + $0.50 Heads Up Sit & Go (234965620), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 03:33:45 ET - 2011/05/02Seat 1: NRFanshawe (1,500)Seat 2: StraddleFish_J9 (1,500)StraddleFish_J9 posts the small blind of 15NRFanshawe posts the big blind of 30The button is in seat #2*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to NRFanshawe [Td 8d]StraddleFish_J9 calls 15NRFanshawe checks*** FLOP *** [Ah 2d Ts]NRFanshawe bets 30StraddleFish_J9 raises to 90NRFanshawe calls 60*** TURN *** [Ah 2d Ts] [Tc]NRFanshawe bets 150StraddleFish_J9 foldsUncalled bet of 150 returned to NRFanshaweNRFanshawe mucksNRFanshawe wins the pot (240)*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 240 | Rake 0Board: [Ah 2d Ts Tc]Seat 1: NRFanshawe (big blind) collected (240), muckedSeat 2: StraddleFish_J9 (small blind) folded on the Turn
http://www.husng.com/content/how-post-handsInput format -> Full HTML
With the T8s, I raise pre, but not awful to check. I think checking is best on the flop - it's correct for him to bet this flop with all of his air and we want that bet. Leading can induce some spazz but we don't have the reads for that early on. As played, I think the turn bet is really really suboptimal - a big part of his range is going to be bluffs that you're just folding out. In general, whenever you call a raise on a board your opponent will be bluffing on a good bit, and you're very strong on the turn, you have to check to the bluffer again.
Thanks for the response! In this next hand I feel like I butchered it (not that I am a huge fan of the way my opponent played it :), but I was really lost. The villain had been mostly standard to that point, except for potting twice on a dryish flop as a C-bet and calling my C-bet and leading the turn (now that I've seen how scary this line is and how insta- I folded, I can understand how bad my line in the first hand I posted was). I usually don't raise limps too wide, but after reading that you raise T8s, I decided to try raising T9s and seeing how it went (I'm usually content with letting them limp and sticking to raising big value hands like QJ). I had an OESD + BP on the flop, so I decided to C-bet, even though it was a very wet one. The turn really had me lost - c/f seems too weak considering we picked up outs, but betting out this big kinda committed me (or am I wrong here?) so I just shoved, which does seem stupid to me, considering I didn't think I had any FE. I think in the June edition of the program you can add my thread to the list of recommended reading (with the legend "if you're a donk, read this one first" :) No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$11 + $0.50 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBysufaky1725 BBHero1275 Effective Stacks: 32bb Blinds 20/40 Pre-Flop (60, 2 players) Hero is BB ysufaky calls 20, Hero raises to 120, ysufaky calls 80 Flop (240, 2 players) Hero bets 120, ysufaky calls 120 Turn (480, 2 players) Hero bets 340, ysufaky raises to 680, Hero goes all-in 1035, ysufaky folds Final Pot: 2195 Hero wins 2195 ( won +920 ) ysufaky lost -920
lol @ opponent!I like your play, I think you can fold out some Jx/9x with the turn bet and he should rarely have Ax. I also think the turn is a flat but going to mean close to nothing because of the rare situations like this so I'm OK with just getting it in.
Sorry if this is too idiotic, but I really doubt what to do in spots like this one sometimes. Opponent had been playing TAGgish, but he seemed a bit frustrated by my c/r-ing him on the flop fairly often (I had caught a few hands in a row), so I didn't believe him when he insta-shoved turn, figuring he'd at least consider how to best extract value from a king. Is that bad reasoning and an easy fold regardless of all this?No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$11 + $0.50 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBFosTalicska1355 BBHero1645 Effective Stacks: 34bb Blinds 20/40 Pre-Flop (60, 2 players) Hero is BB FosTalicska raises to 100, Hero calls 60 Flop (200, 2 players) Hero checks, FosTalicska bets 100, Hero raises to 280, FosTalicska calls 180 Turn (760, 2 players) Hero checks, FosTalicska goes all-in 975, Hero calls 975 River (2710, 2 players, 1 all-in) Final Pot: 2710 FosTalicska shows a pair of Kings Hero shows a pair of Queens FosTalicska wins 2710 ( won +1355 ) Hero lost -1355
And a couple more general question: suppose, villain is a general TAG and he shoves over my min-raise 16bb deep. What range should I assign to him? I usually do it myself with Ax, where x is T or worse and with smallish PPs. Versus tighter players I will throw in some lowish SCs (87s). I use lowish because I feel that I'll have two live cards more often if called. Is this reasoning right? Am I missing something I should add to my 3-bet shoving range or shoving something I shouldn't? I want to do a couple equity calcs based on my notes from one of your videos, but I understood I have no idea which range to Stove for villain, hence the first question.
Against a TAG opponent I'm usually folding turn despite his seeming frustration, he basically has to have a flush draw for us to be ahead and I don't think he has it enough. These type of opponents can also be scared of draws and overbet for value rather than see a scary river a lot.
"And a couple more general question: suppose, villain is a general TAG and he shoves over my min-raise 16bb deep. What range should I assign to him? I usually do it myself with Ax, where x is T or worse and with smallish PPs. Versus tighter players I will throw in some lowish SCs (87s). I use lowish because I feel that I'll have two live cards more often if called. Is this reasoning right? Am I missing something I should add to my 3-bet shoving range or shoving something I shouldn't? I want to do a couple equity calcs based on my notes from one of your videos, but I understood I have no idea which range to Stove for villain, hence the first question. "I'm a little confused about the bolded, I'd assume AK-AJ is in the range too, plus KQ, KJ, and then it's hard to say what else is there (that's what we have to figure out!) Experiment with a few different ranges and see what happens.
I don't usually shove AJ+ around 16bb because I try to 3-bet smaller and set up a flop shove (that's called go-and-go, right?). As for KQ/KJ, I forgot those, my bad. I'll try to experiment with a few different ranges.I have few reads on my opponent in the following one, except that he raise-folded my stab in a limped pot on A89 rainbow flop and that he defended J6o and just let my 33 get to SD without contesting the pot on a fairly wet board. I check-shoved flop to fold out FDs and their equity, but I am far from certain this is a good play. Of course, getting called by MP was a pleasant surprise :)No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$11 + $0.50 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter BBHero1590 SBilbenve1410 Effective Stacks: 47bb Blinds 15/30 Pre-Flop (45, 2 players) Hero is BB ilbenve raises to 90, Hero calls 60 Flop (180, 2 players) Hero checks, ilbenve bets 120, Hero goes all-in 1500, ilbenve goes all-in 1200 Turn (3000, 2 players, 2 all-in) River (3000, 2 players, 2 all-in) Final Pot: 3000 Hero shows two pair, Aces and Fours ilbenve shows a pair of Kings Hero wins 3000 ( won +1410 ) ilbenve lost -1410
Definitely not a fan of this flop jam. It's too deep for this. Strong aces, flushes, two pair, and sets have you absolutely crushed here, and the value from folding out his flush draws isn't worth putting your entire stack in the middle when he's calling about a quarter of the time (depending on opening range) and you have like 33% equity when he calls. And when he folds, you don't win that much. I much prefer calling. No need to be so scared of a diamond coming especially this deep.Opening and c-betting frequency are key to this, though. If he were opening 100% and c-betting 100% to this size, then you could start thinking about it.
This is another fairly common spot where I am unsure what to do. Villain had been of the "aggressive" variety - raised pre-flop, 3-bet me once in the several hands we had played, but this was the first postflop hand. I never know what line to take. If I just flat, I can perhaps save a part of my stack against better aces/monsters, but it'll be more difficult to play, say, a Q turn OOP. With the line I took I attack draws/9x, but I bust myself against better hands.No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter BBHero1410 BTNilbenve1590 Effective Stacks: 47bb Blinds 15/30 Pre-Flop (45, 2 players) Hero is BB ilbenve calls 15, Hero checks Flop (60, 2 players) Hero bets 45, ilbenve raises to 90, Hero raises to 330, ilbenve folds Final Pot: 480 Hero wins 480 ( won +120 ) ilbenve lost -120
I would flat or raise smaller (and probably fold to a jam) unless he seems particularly spewy, in which case raise smaller and call a jam. As standard I would just flat and see what happens on the turn, calling big bets and betting if checked to.
I see. And do we plan to bet big bets even if a scare card hits here? Like a J turn, for example. And does this mean that we commit ourselves to calling a river bet? I am a little worried that this allows him to play all his draws very well against us, betting to get value when they hit and giving up when they miss. If we do raise, at least he either has to call extra chips now or release a more significant equity than he has on the turn if he misses. Or am I once again too worried about draws and not worried enough about better made hands?
I think you are too worried about draws, yeah."betting to get value when they hit and giving up when they miss"This is why I advise betting turn when checked to - strong draws will probably continue vs a good size turn bet and weaker ones will either call erroneously or fold, so we're still getting a good amount of value. I just think being crushed against his biggest made hands is a big problem here.I'd call a big bet on the turn if it's a jack but probably fold river to a jam unimproved. On the turn he can be doing that with some pair+draw combo stuff and we have decent equity against two pair. On the river he'll have very few bluffs in his range as people rarely jam pairs as bluffs in that situation.
In this hand I am unsure of two things - my overall plan for the hand and the river. I didn't see what a flop raise would have accomplished, though. This is the second hand, I folded to a min-raise in the first one. Is river an easy fold? I had people shove 9x on me in similar spots, figuring (I guess) that since the K paired I didn't have one.No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$11 + $0.50 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBHero1470 BBchesters_one1530 Effective Stacks: 49bb Blinds 15/30 Pre-Flop (45, 2 players) Hero is SB Hero raises to 60, chesters_one raises to 90, Hero raises to 270, chesters_one calls 180 Flop (540, 2 players) chesters_one bets 60, Hero calls 60 Turn (660, 2 players) chesters_one bets 90, Hero calls 90 River (840, 2 players) chesters_one goes all-in 1110, Hero goes all-in 1050 Final Pot: 3000 Hero shows chesters_one shows three of a kind, Kings chesters_one wins 3000 ( won +1470 ) Hero lost -1470
I think you have to call river given the amount of missed draws in his range and the fact that there aren't that many combos of better hands. I'm OK with flatting flop, I would probably put in a smallish turn raise/fold once he bets small again to get value from his worse pairs and draws, the biggest part of his range.
I'm usually folding A-high to a C-bet, but here I decided to experiment a bit. My logic was that I think I'm ahead of his range (he was practically an unknown after two uneventful hands) since I was expecting him to C-bet 100% of his range and that I'd probably know whether he had much of anything by a 2B or the lack thereof. Since the river was a blank, I decided to call it as well as I think many villains will automatically bet after I check turn and river. Was this (a) a brilliant example of range-based thinking (j/k ldo, I mean just a reasonable play), (b) a horrible spew, (c) something in between. I am sure of neither my flop play nor my river play here.No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players • PokerStars$6.71+$0.29 Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBandreyko371500 BBHero1500 Effective Stacks: 75bb Blinds 10/20 Pre-Flop (30, 2 players) Hero is BB andreyko37 raises to 40, Hero calls 20 Flop (80, 2 players) Hero checks, andreyko37 bets 60, Hero calls 60 Turn (200, 2 players) Hero checks, andreyko37 checks River (200, 2 players) Hero checks, andreyko37 bets 120, Hero calls 120 Final Pot: 440 andreyko37 shows a pair of Sixes Hero shows a pair of Sixes - Ace kicker Hero wins 440 ( won +220 ) andreyko37 lost -220
The next hand was a few hands later, during which I hadn't noticed anything particularly interesting about the opponent. He hadn't been too aggressive, but he did raise a limp I tried to throw in (btw, I limp-folded K3o vs a 3x raise, figuring that it was too weak to play even getting 2-to 1 IP. Now that I'm thinking about it, it's a bit like your last article about not being too tight OOP, except that K3o is worse than K5o and being IP is a lot better than being OOP, so I should have called instead. Does that reasoning sound right?) I really don't know what to do in spots like these on the flop - I'd like him to fold his 25% equity, so I check-raised. But I am not sure. I am pretty sure I don't like betting turn and river, though, but I am still not sure how to play against a turn bet (or river bet, for that matter). Check-folding either seems weak. Overall, this reminds me of the ending of "Burn after reading", where they know they should never do it again, but don't know what exactly they actually did.No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$6.71+$0.29 Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBandreyko371270 BBHero1730 Effective Stacks: 64bb Blinds 10/20 Pre-Flop (30, 2 players) Hero is BB andreyko37 raises to 60, Hero calls 40 Flop (120, 2 players) Hero checks, andreyko37 bets 60, Hero raises to 180, andreyko37 calls 120 Turn (480, 2 players) Hero bets 220, andreyko37 calls 220 River (920, 2 players) Hero bets 320, andreyko37 calls 320 Final Pot: 1560 andreyko37 shows Hero shows two pair, Tens and Fives Hero wins 1560 ( won +780 ) andreyko37 lost -780
I'd fold Ax to a 3/4 pot c-bet, but as played, his line looks full of it, and I'd call river as well. Kx generally bets the turn, 6x generally bets bigger, it's a thin size for 7x.K3o isn't the greatest hand to limp, because it lets so much trash like 94o into the pot for free with good equity, and can't stand up to a 3x raise. I do think if you limp it, you should fold to a 3x. The differences are:1) a 3x is different than a 2x2) People's range for raising the button tends to be way wider than for raising a limp.
As for the hand,"Overall, this reminds me of the ending of "Burn after reading", where they know they should never do it again, but don't know what exactly they actually did."Haha, nice.I like your line. There should be more Ax combos in his range than better hands, albeit marginally.
Thanks a lot for your responses, you reassured me. What is our plan in the TT flop hand if he shoves river? I planned to fold, treating my bet as a sort of blocking bet, but I am far from sure about this, since I've already put in a significant part of my stack. Still, what worse hands does he shove?As for the K3o hand, I read the idea of limping in one of spamzors reviews, where he give examples of limping hands such as T8o and K2o. What kind of hands do you recommend to limp (if any against unknowns, but I like this idea of limping some hands to find out his tendencies, since we are going to be limping hands in the endgame)?
I'd fold river, exactly because there are few worse hands that he can get here with and decide to shove. People trap correctly here with Tx all the time.I prefer limping hands like T8o to K2o - T8o plays better on flops and does better against his junk range (compare to weak Tx/9x/8x/7x/6x trash, which does fine against K2o.
I see, this definitely makes sense and makes hands easier to play. And it's not like I want to have a huge limping range anyway, since I usually only limp for information purposes (loose-passive opponents can be an exception, but there K-high plays well enough postflop, I think, since I can often get to SD with it). In the next hand, opponent hadn't done anything particularly interesting except for donking a 962tt flop, something which I'd never do myself vs an unknown since this flop is dry enough for C-betting, I think. I don't like folding top pair too much, but I think that this is either a draw, which has decent equity against us, especially if it is coupled with a pair, or a better 7x or a big made hand, which is simply crushing us. Just wanted to make sure my reasoning is correct. Also, is the C-bet right on this flop? I usually wouldn't C-bet it without a made hand, but I think being balanced isn't very important at the micros.No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$6.71+$0.29 Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBHero1580 BBBosz871420 Effective Stacks: 71bb Blinds 10/20 Pre-Flop (30, 2 players) Hero is SB Hero raises to 60, Bosz87 calls 40 Flop (120, 2 players) Bosz87 checks, Hero bets 80, Bosz87 goes all-in 1360, Hero folds Final Pot: 1560 Bosz87 wins 1560 ( won +140 ) Hero lost -140
And here I stole a line from my fish opponents, but I don't like it at all. I stabbed the flop because I think that monotone boards are good to stab at (is that right?), but then I turned the flush and didn't really know what to do with it. Should I have actually used the idea with two blocking bets, but without trying to pretend I am a limidonk? :)No Limit Holdem Tournament• 2 Players• PokerStars$6.71+$0.29 Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter BBHero1440 SBBosz871560 Effective Stacks: 72bb Blinds 10/20 Pre-Flop (30, 2 players) Hero is BB Bosz87 calls 10, Hero checks Flop (40, 2 players) Hero bets 20, Bosz87 calls 20 Turn (80, 2 players) Hero bets 20, Bosz87 calls 20 River (120, 2 players) Hero bets 20, Bosz87 calls 20 Final Pot: 160 Hero shows a flush, King high Bosz87 shows Hero wins 160 ( won +80 ) Bosz87 lost -80
This was the first hand, and I have three questions about it. First, I was intending to c/r the flop if he bet. Is this the right play? Second, should I have led the turn? There seems to be little that I'm getting any value from and little hope to fold out any better hand. However, a draw without a pair might pay me off now, which it wouldn't do on the river. Still, there aren't too many combos of Qx left. And third, after the river doesn't hit me, what should I have done? c/f seems weak since he hadn't shown any strength, so I was torn between a blocking bet, which I used, and a c/c, but I am not sure how to choose.No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players • PokerStars$6.71+$0.29 Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBcharlie5801500 BBHero1500 Effective Stacks: 75bb Blinds 10/20 Pre-Flop (30, 2 players) Hero is BB charlie580 raises to 60, Hero calls 40 Flop (120, 2 players) Hero checks, charlie580 checks Turn (120, 2 players) Hero bets 80, charlie580 calls 80 River (280, 2 players) Hero bets 120, charlie580 folds Final Pot: 400 Hero wins 400 ( won +140 ) charlie580 lost -140
This was the first hand, and I have three questions about it. First, I was intending to c/r the flop if he bet. Is this the right play? Second, should I have led the turn? There seems to be little that I'm getting any value from and little hope to fold out any better hand. However, a draw without a pair might pay me off now, which it wouldn't do on the river. Still, there aren't too many combos of Qx left. And third, after the river doesn't hit me, what should I have done? c/f seems weak since he hadn't shown any strength, so I was torn between a blocking bet, which I used, and a c/c, but I am not sure how to choose.No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players • PokerStars$6.71+$0.29 Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBcharlie5801500 BBHero1500 Effective Stacks: 75bb Blinds 10/20 Pre-Flop (30, 2 players) Hero is BB charlie580 raises to 60, Hero calls 40 Flop (120, 2 players) Hero checks, charlie580 checks Turn (120, 2 players) Hero bets 80, charlie580 calls 80 River (280, 2 players) Hero bets 120, charlie580 folds Final Pot: 400 Hero wins 400 ( won +140 ) charlie580 lost -140
c-bet/folding to a jam is definitely correct with the T7, and it's not close. nh.
With the J5, I would actually check/fold the turn, as weird as it sounds. Most opponents will not turn pairs into a bluff here, and there's not many hands to get value out of from betting.
I prefer check/calling to check/raising with the QT, even though we have very good equity, we're also not folding out a ton by check/raising or getting value from that much. On the river, a small bet is fine to get value from Ax/worse pairs, but I'd be fine as well with checking and folding to big bets, which will be Jx a lot of the time.
I see, thanks. About the J5 hand - when does it become correct to bet with a one-card flush? Say, if the J was of the suit, not the 5, we're now getting value from some hands, aren't we?
I'd probably continue with the eight of clubs and definitely the ten.
I have a question about a hand from the HH review. It's about 25BB deep vs a fairly standard opponent. You recommend to C-bet J9 on 643tt flop (we have a J-high BDFD) and say that it's very important to C-bet here with just J-high and that we should C-bet this flop with all our air. I thought that low connected boards were bad to C-bet because we get little credit and they hit a big part of his range in some way (draw or pair or both for all SCs and gappers, for example). I also think that I heard this in a video by HokieGreg that it's better not to C-bet boards like this, but it was deeper. Is your opinion different from HokieGreg's on this or am I missing something important here? Is it a function of stack depth and would you c/b 75bb deep?
I would guess my opinion is different than HokieGreg's. I think you easily get enough folds for it to be worth it to c-bet at pretty much any stack size with your hand and that board.
I see. Thanks, I'll try it and see how it goes :) I'll also be more attentive towards player tendencies in this spot, I guess. I'll have a busy couple of days, so I doubt I'll be posting many hands, so I wanted to take the oppurtunity to thank you for this fantastic program. I think it has been very useful for me, both from the point of view of improvement and from the point of view of motivation and being sure about my game. Thanks a ton and I look forward to reading the forum next month.
You've been a great student, I'm glad I was able to coach you and help out :)