This is a couple of hands into a hyper-turbo. No real reads on villain except that he seems aggressive.BB (t550)Hero (SB) (t450)Hero is SB with 10hQsHero bets t40, BB raises to t100, Hero?I guess folding here is standard. Should I have any flatting range here vs a 3bet of this size? If so I guess it should be mostly broadway hands that connect well with flops but are to weak to shove.Do I just jam A9o+, A7s+ and 44+ or something and fold the rest?What about if I had a read on the opponent that he had done this 3 times before and I folded, how would the flatting and jamming ranges change?Thanks,Cam.
QT isn't a bad hand to call with against a non tight 3bettor. It flops fairly well, making solid pairs and straight draws that are definitely playable in a 200 chip pot with around 350-400 effective chips remaining.Vs a guy that has 3bet 3x in a short sample, folding will almost certainly be worse than jamming or calling. If you're in doubt about postflop play vs this villain and aren't super comfortable or confident in 3bet pots to begin with, jamming QT might be the easier choice, but really think about why you don't want to call and lay it out on the forum so we can discuss.
Thanks Ryan,As I said, in this hand I had no reads, and I didnt feel very comfortable flatting and playing post flop knowing nothing about his 3betting range. Following this hand he did the same thing at least twice more at the t20 level, which lead me to wonder what would have been the best line if I had this information on the QT hand.I guess when I jam I don't know how much fold equity I have, and I'm probably not way ahead of his 3betting range even if it is wide. I think flatting the would be good, as he is likely to be aggressive post flop and QT flops well.I am pretty new to these things, and I dont think my post flop play is great yet - I have come from multitabling $15 - $60 stts and I think my post flop play was probably my biggest leak.Assuming he leads 100 on the flop, what would be your thoughts in the following situations?1/ We flop top pair - I think I usually just shove over him here, as flatting looks strong and he might think our line is consistant with a big part of our flatting range preflop, regardless of whether we hit. I guess it depends on board texture, but not realy sure how my plan should change on a QdJd7s board to a T42 rainbow board.2/ We flop a strong draw - Again I just jam to get maximum FE.3/ We flop a weak draw - With a weak draw like a gutshot I probably flat more, and see what happens on the turn, as he is representing a strong range which a flop like this would hit pretty hard, and we might not have enough fold equity to make a shove profitable.4/ We flop middle pair - This is the spot I have most trouble with. Shoving probably folds out all the hands we beat so is pretty bad, so I guess I flat and see what happens. If he fires again the I am usually calling, and if he checks I am betting to get value from his draws.Would appreciate any thoughts on what else I should consider post flop, or any flaws in my logic.Cheers,Cameron.
1 - Board texture does matter, though readless you'll probably raise/jam a lot with TP hands.2 - You'll often play strong draws with a raise, though do keep in mind on some boards (more so with Kx or Ax hands in non 3bet pots where players don't have as many Ax or Kx hands making up as large a % of their range) you might want to flat some draws because you can often be ahead of bluffs simply with Q hi and when you raise you sometimes only get decent hands to call (example, a player that won't bet weak pairs or SD value, when he bets he'll often have a pretty strong TP+ hand or air, and if your Q hi or K hi or A hi beats their air, you may elect to just flat... again this is more specific/detailed to really explain here and happens more often in 30+bb area in my experience).3 - You have a lot of fold equity on many boards, jamming/raising weak draws is often appropriate.4 - Shoving isn't necessarily bad, you're rarely folding 2nd pair in a 3bet pot in a ST anyways, these are short effective stacks and readless your opponents will generally have too wide of ranges on many boards for it to be bad to stick it in with 2nd pair. With reads you can find some folds, but honestly it's an exception not the standard when you're folding 2nd pair in any sort of built up pot in a ST, stacks are just too short, you have too many chips in the pot to fold that strong of a hand without a good reason. At deeper stacks, often the only reason you won't raise that 2nd pair is because you fold out too many weaker hands and build huge pots against stronger hands (again, very opponent/board/hand dependent) so the "lose huge pots" versus "win some small pots" is too out of balance for it to be advantageous for you. That doesn't really happen as much in STs, and if you find your opponent folds everything except TP to raises, then raise literally everywhere to take advantage of the fold equity. Aggressive adjustments and overall gameplans are much more important in the STs, as there really is not successful "nit it up" "wait for value" strategies that can often be very effective in deeper structures games (bc opponents make so many huge mistakes that you can pass up +EV spots and still make up some or all of that later by exploiting huge loose tendency leaks in a very slow and deeper structure).Typed this up fast bc I have to run for a bit, so I'll check on it later and make sure there aren't any major mistakes.
You make a good point about shoving second pair over his bet - if he is not calling with worse hands then he is way too tight and is in the long run I make heaps from him folding anyway. I think perhaps I am too cautious in these spots and decide to flat, but I dont neccessarily gain anything, as with the pot this big we are still getting it in when he has a better pair, and I might let him catch up or lose action when he was behind and the board comes out bad.Thanks,Cam.