At one point in Mers's video nr.15 he's saying somethin like `Nash is a pretty decent guide for 8bb< poker, but a pretty poor guide for more bb's?`, but in vid.20 I see him happily use nash for almost all your >8bb decisions. Can anyone explain me why nash is a bad guide for >8bb poker. Can u give me a link to a video or post where it's explained why it's such a bad guide?And where can i find theory on how i should play non-nash >8bb then?
The difference is that he's not open shoving A5o at 10bb because it's a shove on nash.Nash is only appropriate if you are shoving EVERY hand it suggests at the stack level, otherwise you're deviating from nash.Mers thinks it's poor to shove some of those hands you can limp or minraise more profitably, and even thinks it is poor to open fold some of the hands he would actually shove that aren't listed on nash.It's opponent dependent, but he doesn't mean the nash chart is a total waste, just that using it point by point above 8bb is far from best and incorrect in most situations.Let me know if that helps.
For non-nash >8bb play try mersenneary video 6.In general nash is gonna be at worst 0ev but at greater than 8bb you can manipulate your opponent more with limps and minraises rather than just jamming or folding, which you have to with nash or it is no longer an equilibrium strategy.
Ah yes...definitely makes it more understandable. Was just wondering if there was theory about >8bb play that he was using that i was missing out on.I'll check out Mers's sixth vid soon. Tnx
A lot of people don't know this, but NASH is actually -EV from the small blind above 8bb deep. After that point, limiting your options to just openshoving or folding means that the big blind has the advantage. If you try to just play by the charts 10bb deep, you will get your butt kicked by an expert player.As ChicagoRy says, that doesn't mean the Nash charts aren't useful in helping make decisions above 8bb, but it tends to be in the context of a lot of other factors, and not just "oh, NASH says I can shove" or "oh, NASH says I can call". That type of thinking above 8bb can get you in some pretty serious trouble.
Mers, where would you say is the cutoff for m/r folding (assuming a normal opponent and not one that only 3-b shoves with AA)? For instance, it seems too costly at 8bb.
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By the way, do you think by using nash in ALL THE ST STAGES WHEN THE EFFECTIVE STACK IS <8BB'S we have an edge that can be profitable multitabling VERY MUCH in the long term? I mean, we are not taking the most EV+ decisions in MUCH spots, but we have an unexploitable end game strategy where the money is.So if we became a robot that plays X HU ST per day using nash everytime the effective stack is <8BB'S deep we may get a decent Hourly income?. I know that is not poker, but maybe is worth to try as an experiment.
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ShipItBuddy, It would depend entirely on your 8-25bb play.If you shove every hand below 8bb versus using Nash sb, I don't think the EV difference is massive (could be wrong on that, but I believe that to be true). There just isn't a ton of edge under 8bb unless your opponent is doing something absolutely nuts (like folding to jams with anything but Ax or strong PPs or strong broadway), and that just doesn't happen often enough (and when it does it is painfully obvious in many cases that your opponent is a nit and you should jam basically every hand).If there were an 8bb or less husng, even with minimal rake, I don't think anyone would likely have the edge to justify playing that structure, so maybe that answers your question better than the above.