Cool that you started this thread! GlHand 1 :: StandardHan 2 :: Is a CB even if he is pretty spewy I think.

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Hand 1: why do you cb so little? Might induce? I think its a bet/get it in.Hand 2 : Feel the same. Would love to hear the opinion on this. How is cr readless?Hand 3: Lead for FE / build pot if you hit.

good thread. i'll update tomorrow

the finest coaches in the game.way to get on my good side :)A8: Preflop is good, Flop too - he'll be check/jamming a cbet a bunch im sure. I'd be looking to delay cbet certain turns - mainly 2/3/4/5/6/7/K, other cards hit his range too much still.Kind of hard to imagine much total air he can have by the river. If missed draws were going to bluff, I think the type player that does that typically leads the turn with most of that range anyways. I play it the sameKT: 774 is a pretty dry board at this stack depth - you will have the best hand a ton on this flop (doubt he has any AX or better KX). if he's flatting wide enough to actually connect to this board, then that means there is a bunch of total air in his range here too.Be careful applying reads you get on a villain at deeper stacks to shorter stack depths. I'd expect to get c/r'd light (no showdown value or draw) a lot more at deeper stacks on this type board than at shorter stacks - this is because a c/r at shorter stacks is committing, and they have room on turns deeper.Also, most villains that c/r a lot still don't do it enough for it to matter too much. Like I said, this is a board he should miss a lot no matter what his oop range is - a cbet of t50 only needs to work 50/170 or like 30%. Def think it's going to work a bunch more than that. 

Unknown villain limps first hand. What range should I be raising and to what size?AK-A9, 88-TT, raise to t80KQ-K9s, QJ-Q9s, JT-J9s, T9s, JJ-AA, raise to t65-70 something like that

How much equity would you need to c/r a dry board as a bluff readless?I'd ask this in the Mers-only thread. He probably has some sexy mathematical answer for you on this one.I don't think you are ever TOTALLY readless though - our 'readless' decisions are determined by population tendancies (what we expect the average player to do). The average player doesn't really cbet that wide - maybe 65-70% on dry boards and def tighter like 50-55% on wet boards. Something like that. So not super wide cbet frequencies that we can just c/r ridiculously wide or anything.Also we need to consider preflop opening frequency of the average player. Maybe only like 60-65%ish? Again, with a nittier range this weights their overall postflop ranges to a lot more playable hands. Fwiw, if somone is opening 100% of buttons and cbetting 100% of flops, if you are flatting a reasonable range oop you can just c/r any flop profitably. That's obv almost never going to be maxEV, but you see what I'm getting at. The more air villain has in his overall range, the less equity we need to c/r bluff.

Q7: i like your cbet size with this particular hand. we can safely assume that with this c/r size stacks are going in if we 3bet 100% of the time. so we need 375/960 or like 38% equity vs his overall range. he has a lot of blockers in his range that negatively effect our equity - all the combo draws, etc. mess around with stove...maybe it's close, but this is how we go about answering this anyways.QT: don't think you will get to showdown with the best hand often enough to justify flatting. just remember, you didn't flat QT oop bc playing postflop on all flops was +ev - but you realize equity often enough for calling to be better than folding (obv QT is doing really well in this regard). I'd need a pretty specific read that villain cbets wide AND shuts down on turn/rivers a bunch with his total air.Q4: i'd be leading turn to protect equity from his checked back total air (kind of unlikely tho), for river implied odds for when we hit (villain will pay us off more the bigger the pot is), and also to prevent situations where we check the turn and villain bets like t60+ - such a meh spot. i think the last point is the most important in this situation though, since i dont expect most players to not cbet this flop with total air - so his range is gong to be lots of bluffcatching stuff that wont fold to a turn lead. i think leading some kind of blocking size of t25-t30 (underbetting ftw!) accomplishes everything we are trying to do here. 

56: meh, i fold but its a wierd spot bc hes not repping much though. imo though when most villains c/r bluff draws/air on this board, its pretty rare that they check the turn then make a big river bluff. usually they either c/r and continue to barrel, or c/r and shut down unimproved. i don't find myself seeing much air in this spot at all.T9: just check turn and realize your river equity for free. if we're going to take a stab at the pot, i'd rather it be on the river after villain checks again - maybe we can rep more or rep some thin value or something. i don't want to get check/shoved off free equity here.J8: leading and c/r can be good options vs villains who have wide opening/cbetting ranges but dont put up a fight postflop - meaning when you play back, even if they are skeptical, they are relatively fit or fold and don't adjust their ranges nearly enough for it to make bluffing bad.i'd be c/f readless though.

"AK-A9, 88-TT, raise to t80 KQ-K9s, QJ-Q9s, JT-J9s, T9s, JJ-AA, raise to t65-70"- Dont you raise KQ-K9o, QJ-Q9o, JT-J9o, T9o?  How much equity would you need to c/r a dry board as a bluff readless? - Have you posted this in mers thread?  “QT on 443: don't think you will get to showdown with the best hand often enough to justify flatting. just remember, you didn't flat QT oop bc playing postflop on all flops was +ev - but you realize equity often enough for calling to be better than folding (obv QT is doing really well in this regard). I'd need a pretty specific read that villain cbets wide AND shuts down on turn/rivers a bunch with his total air.” - How about if he had K8 or an A-rag on 733? How much closer would it be to cc/cr?   “Q4dd on AK3dd: i'd be leading turn to protect equity from his checked back total air (kind of unlikely tho), for river implied odds for when we hit (villain will pay us off more the bigger the pot is), and also to prevent situations where we check the turn and villain bets like t60+ - such a meh spot. “ -Don’t you think most villains will bluff the turn if they decided to check flop? Wouldn’t it be better to cr turn if so?   "56 on 995: meh, i fold but its a wierd spot bc hes not repping much though. imo though when most villains c/r bluff draws/air on this board, its pretty rare that they check the turn then make a big river bluff. usually they either c/r and continue to barrel, or c/r and shut down unimproved. i don't find myself seeing much air in this spot at all." -So why fold if he hast most air/draws? Why not 3B flop? 

- Dont you raise KQ-K9o, QJ-Q9o, JT-J9o, T9o?sorry, ya i do.- How about if he had K8 or an A-rag on 733? How much closer would it be to cc/cr?it's just a spot where we really have so little in our perceived range that connects to the board, so i expect a thinking player (the type that is willing to fire 2-3 barrels a lot) to be the type to play back at a c/r when we rep nothing a good amount.i'd flat these hands and just be willing to call off light, it's a tough situation regardless - i just think QT is pushing it.-So why fold if he hast most air/draws? Why not 3B flop? bc as i said, after the turn check and big river bet - i just don't think it's a line people take with air hardly at all. i'd much rather jam over a turn bet on a non-heart turn - turn check does look like air shutting down and probably is a lot, but its just sooo rare that people use this line to make a big bluff.i would 3bet flop at shorter eff stx, but we still have some room to flat reevaluate. lots of non-heart turns that i'd be jamming over a turn lead on like i said. adds some additional value from keeping bluffs in range (we do give up some equity, but i think this option is more valuable long term vs the average player)

We get 3-bet three times and get our first limp raised within the first 10 hands of the match. What range are we limp/jamming vs this villain at a) 25 bbs b)20 bbs c) 15 bbs?do you mean "what range are we limping" and "what range are we jamming"? bc i wouldn't have a limp/jamming range - would just limp/call or mr/call - mr/4bet. of course if u find that your opponent is raising a huge % of your limps, you can start limp/jamming - but i def wouldnt make this assumption based off what you saw here. when you limp your AK and stuff - you are giving all the hands in his range that would have just folded to a raise pre free equity to see a flop. also you possibly lose value from hands that would have 3bet shoved or 3bet/got in if you just minraised as well. lots of problems with it.

T7: definitely a cbet readless. the average villain calls wide enough to be cbetting air on this board imo (they call too wide). avg villain also doesn't c/r a wide range at all on boards like this (or c/r wide in general) - so i'm really comfortable cbetting most boards until they give me reason not to.as played, def calling turn/river leads on this runout.J6: unless you have seen villain jam a ton - and then they finally minraise, i wouldn't narrow the range i'd call an openshove with at all. calling a NASH range to jams <6 deep even vs fish is probably fine, so i'd just 3bet shove that range. if we villain shows down a big hand, we can nit up a bit more in the future in this spot. KJ: i would never fold here - even vs a tight range it's going to be hard for a call to have worse expectation than a fold (obv if we know villains range is like AJ+ JJ+ we can fold, but when does that happen?). would jam if i thought there was any chance villain has a 3bet bluffing range at this stack depth.would call in any other situationQT: im almost positive there isnt a HEM stat for that :(hand looks good. i'd just jam flop considering the size of his cbet/stack depth behind if you flat. just protect equity and jam.J7: at this stack depth, cbet/stacking off is going to be fine - villains range should be quite wide and u should have the necessary equity against it. i expect most of villains range to either be c/r or folding this flop. i'd expect hands that c/c to be either relatively weak and not able to face barrels well, or really strong (but it's hard to imagine too many real strong combos in villains range --no A2 or 62, would expect 2 pair hands and combo draws to c/r to protect equity...so really just 67). i'd cbet and just slight overbet jam on most turns when checked to. i'd expect you to have a lot of fold equity still esp jamming 330 into 240.really don't like the idea of checking back this flop though - you should have a ton of flop fold equity vs all the middling stuff that missed this board, and if you check back you are giving a free 15-20% equity to all thos ehands that would have folded to a cbet.  

How aggressive would the villain have to be for you to start limp/jamming and what range would you use for this? Do you need to know villain is attacking limps a ton before making this adjustment or is a very high 3-bet % enough? I tend to limp-shove Ax alot vs these villains but I guess I should be mr/calling instead if theyre 3-betting that wide?i think it's infinitely rare that you have an opponent that raises limps wide enough to justify limping to limp/shove, but they aren't the type that will just 3bet wide a ton when you minraise. as i said, the big problem here is giving free equity to all his absolute trash that checks back, that really sucks. if you want a specific answer of frequencies here, fwd your question to the mers-only thread - he can probably give you some sexy math answer that i'm not quite capable of :)you DEFINITELY would need to know that villain is doing this a ton before making this adjustment, bc you are forgoing the option of minraising which is already very +ev. just stop limp-shoving AX. it's very very rare that it's correct.

When reading the NASH chart, should I include my big blind in stacks count? yes65: 65o is too wide to be flatting oop. i'll cover that more in the next post though. so fold preas played, i actually like the lead a lot. let me see if i can dig up a post i made about donkbetting in someone else's thread - i'll post it here. K3: it's close, but damn i really respect a c/mr on a board like this, esp at such short eff stx. i'd call a check jam, but just folding to c/r - even if his range includes a lot of draws, you arent doing well against it at all.i typically really like your smaller 35% of the pot cbet size with most of your range, but i think you have a hand that is best to be a little more exploitable and cbet t60. you have a hand that really continues awkwardly on turns if flatted by a wide range (especially with the turn stack sizes that will make betting turn without committing yoruself difficult). so i think a bigger sizes discourages a lot of flats, and encourages check/shoves which is going to be best (we do better the wider his range is when he check/shoves obv).I'm not sure how light I should be stacking off on the flop here. This villain had c/r 50% over 8 opportunities. Whats your line here?I often find myself in rough turn/river spots after checking back middlepair/ace high vs an aggressive c/raiser on the flop. Do you have some general guidelines how to deal with these spots? For example, do you ever check back some stronger hands to be able to call more barrels?the correct adjustment vs someone who is check/raising you with a wide/equity-heavy (not TONS of total air) range is to polarize your cbetting range. so start checking back hands that don't face a checkraise well, but hav esome showdown value and can call turn/river leads or delay cbet well. your cbet range is then polarized between hands that continue well vs a c/r, and hands that easily fold to a c/r. so i like your checkback here a lot.checking back stronger hands to face turn/river leads better is absolutely the wrong adjustment though. we are facing someone who c/r us a bunch, so cbetting our strong hands is going to have reallllly good expectation. the correct adjustment then, after polarizing your cbet range, is to just handread well and call off lighter than you normally would if you think he is leading turn/river so wide. like obv if he's flatting a bunch oop, and then you check back 2nd pair, you are going to have the best hand still a bunch of the time - so if hes leading a ton folding in your position would be bad.i used to hate playing "aggressive" players like this because it took me out of my comfort zone of playing "abc poker". they force you to make adjustments, to narrow certain ranges and widen others. to call down lighter with hands that seem quite marginal. once you start thinking about how to deal with them correctly, and make the necessary adjustments, beating them will actually get quite easy. i LOVE playing guys who c/r way too much and never adjust, 3bet way too much etc...even if i have the same winrate vs aggressive player A as compared to nitty player B - my hourly vs player A is a ton better bc games end so fast bc of their epic spewing, haha.

Whats your calling range first hand readless vs a mr? How does it differ vs a 3x, 4x?so 25bb deep:flatting range vs 2x:A9s-A2s,KTs-K2s,Q2s+,J3s+,T5s+,95s+,85s+,75s+,65s,ATo-A2o,KTo-K4o,Q6o+,J7o+,T7o+,98o,87o (43.1% of hands, 3betting another 12% approx - so 55% of total hands oop)flatting range vs 3x:A5s-A2s,K9s+,Q8s+,J8s+,T8s+,K9o+,Q9o+,J9o+,T9o (14.2% of hands)3betting range vs 3x: 22+,A7s+,A8o+ (13.4%, so 27.6% oop...nittier bc i expect avg 3x range to be on nittier side too)flatting range vs 4x: K9s+,Q9s+,J9s+,T9s,KTo+,QTo+,JTo (8.4% of hands, 3betting range pretty much same as vs 3x) something like that...obv the bottom end of each range is debatable a bit. just remember that the more villain risks from his sb to win our bb, the less total hands we need to play oop. so the more he raises, the less and less we can flat - eventually we will reach a point where we are just 3bet shove/folding obv. also, the more villain risks from sb with his pfr, the more value there is in the fold equity we have when 3bet shoving (not that we have a ton vs the typical 3x'ing range, but i'm jamming some of the middling AX bc of card removal - dont think the typical 3x range is wide enough to include all A2-A7 though...too many total hand combos vs a nitty range imo)i'm interested to see what mers says though, so fwd to his thread if you want.

donkbetting (cross-posted from bacon's thread):Another thing i used to think about a lot was the the spot to donk readless, i asked about and i got nobody who could give me a concise description of their readless donking strategy, (other than your nugget of donking wet flops with gutshots, the only spot i think warrants it). but i think realised donking kinda shouldnt be done readless (in raised pots) but should likely be one of the first adjustments we make in face of a less than aggressive opponent, for example if i see someone check back any ace high flop or 2-3 dry flops thats me going donk crazy with a value and bluff range, kinda using my perception of spots which i consider mandatory cbets for say 80%+ of villains range to extrapolate that their will be a lot of checking back.Not just wet boards with gutshots. Think about how your hand plays if you c/c or c/r and then compare that to donkbetting. I think when you think about more situations this way it should be more clear.QT6hh flop we flatted K3hh oop. 24bb stacks. options: check/call - definitely +ev, we do get barreled off some though. when we hit a lot of villains will be shutting down their value range a ton due to scare card (also the K is a card most villains shut down on too), so it will be hard to get a lot of value. check/raise - marginally +ev to +ev, if villain is cbetting a really wide range this will be our best option since we get value from the fold equity we have with his wide cbetting range. most villains dont cbet this board that wide though, so i dont think this is the best option typically. we will have maybe 40-45% equity vs the typical stacking off range if our c/r get jammed on probably, so not that great.donkbet (and donk/3bet) - best option if villain isnt cbetting really wide. most villains respect a donkbet less than a c/r on a board like this, so the range that continues flatting or raising us we should be doing better against than vs a c/r. if our donkbet gets raised we can comfortably 3bet jam - no awkward turn stack size situations like when our c/r gets flatted. also we take initiative away from villain, his flatting range should be relatively weak on a wet board like this so we will still have some opportunities to barrel off as a bluff unimproved. some other hands that i would donkbet (again, if someone is cbetting really wide on all boards then i think donkbetting is far less relavent): also, depending on stack sizes these can bet donkbet/calls or donkbet/3bets - most of them will be donk/3bets since stacks are short in super turbo and ranges will be wider bc of that, deeper stack games you can bet call some of them more.T9 on 872 86 on 752QJ on 982JThh on 752h (overs+backdoor fd)87 on J94What do you think?

QJ: this short i definitely like cbetting and getting it in. 16+ish deep vs an aggro c/r i'd like checking back a lot more.76: if you know that your opponent cbets a wide range (like 70%+ish), their is going to be more value in c/r your 76 bc of the value you get from the fold equity vs his wide cbetting range. readless tho, i think most villains dont really cbet nearly that wide - so i prefer a donkbet and it's my standard play here.85: since you are oop, i'd prob lead turns slightly bigger like 60% of pot so villain isnt getting good odds to flat/reevaluate in position on you. i think the hand is pretty well played though...river sucks but i dont think you see a whole lot of bluffs with that sizing (you need to be right only 60/280 though so its definitely close)T9: if you think T9 is still ahead of his turn barreling range, i'd def check/jam to protect equity (he should call with worse committed draws/pairs some too). you can't really be flatting/reevaluating and actually folding rivers with stacks this short, and i really dont think many people bet this turn size with the intention of firing 3rd barrels a whole lot with air when flattedT9: raising to t75/t80 with your KQ-T9s/JJ-AA is going to be pretty good...people will limp call a lot of dominated stuff. slightly bigger with your AT-AK/88-TT type hands and maybe some bluffs if u think u have a villain that won't limp/call non-all in raises a whole lot. jamming worse AX.T4s: t150-160ish will keep us from very awkward turn stack sizes when flatted, so i prefer something around that.AJ: sick spot. i'm folding, i dont expect to see worse here much. pretty sure most villains that are going to play a draw fast or something are going to play the flop fast with a donkbet or c/r - not flat and just lead turns huge unimproved.A2o-A7o: would be interested to hear Mers' thoughts if you want to fwd it, but ya i think folding them is going to be best. they dont have good expectation flatting oop, and i think the average 3x'ing range is too tight to be jamming all of our Ax 

http://www.fpppro.com/pokerstars-vip-sne-value-calculator.php^^^u can look at the $$$ value of supernova vs whatever you would make if you continued to spend time studying/etc.so basically, whatever that $$ difference is, is that amount worth it for you to sacrifice progressing strategically for a few months? what impacts positive/negative will going for supernova have on you poker career and life in the short and long term?basically it's a question you have to answer for yourself.

KJ: as played, i'd def be c/f flop. i dont think most players cbet these wet-middling boards nearly enough to be c/r bluffing/floating.definitely 3bet pre though. lots of hands that you dominate in even a nitty 3bet/calling range.T7: think in terms of playing your overall range in this spot, and not the individual hand that you happened to be dealt. your oop calling range has a lot of equity on this turn - tons of straight/flush draws, pairs, etc. i'd guess 60-75%ish of your oop calling range is going to have decent equity or better on this turn. also, villains checkback range on this flop is going to be pretty weak and will have a hard time facing 2 streets of bets from an equity-heavy range. so while i probably wouldnt bluff my Q5dd here with a lead, you are leading a ton of hands and it's going to be virtually impossible for villain to exploit that range.

probably not as a standard, no.

86: i play it the same. you are getting direct odds on each street, so it's really not the right hand to turn into a bluff - also i just don't think bluffing vs mindonks on wet boards readless is the way to go regardless of your hand really.keep in mind, along with your 8/7/6 outs you are going to get some turn cards that miss villains range and you will be able to rep pretty well and run a better overall bluff - Q/K/A turns. if he mindonks into us again on these turns, i'm a lot more likely to raise turn + jam rivers. or just bet/bet when checked to on the turn. so basically we get a turn card we're going to continue on well a lot a little over 40% of the time!83: i like it. there is not really any flatting/reevaluating at this stack depth oop on wet boards.readless i'd c/shove something like J6/6X+gutshot and 7X, along with any decent draw. leading your 2 pair/straight hands, since we aren't worried about getting flatted and having to deal with so many awkward turns. if villain doesn't stab much limped, i'd lead your the 7X/draws - we'll be in some awkward spots, but we don't want flops going check/check a ton of the time and letting villain have free equity. i think the average villain that limps at this stack depth is stabbing this flop a pretty good % of the time though, enough to check/jam a little wide.K9: ya i'd bet call turn - i can't really imagine a situation where i'd check this particular turn...i'd just bet/fold or bet/call. giving free equity to way too much stuff we beat with a check.on river, we do beat some 2 pair combos, but there are just way more QJ/flush combos that all make sense. i dont expect avg player turning single pair hands into a bluff here either. so kind of an easy fold when you think about itK6: meh, i just flat flop and let him catch up with a pair or continue his bluff. it's not like we want to play for stacks on the flop vs a range of KX/7X/flush draws anyways - and it's a really dry board in the sense that, other than flushes, the board texture shouldnt change much at all (other than the A, but really not a big part of villains range i'd think).95: i can understand being hesitant about continuing on this river, but really his range still contains sooo many hands that should be folding to a 3rd barrel (all the 8X/7X combo draws, 9X, QJ/KJ). ofc he's going to have some TX that decided to not sure the flop, but i think the avg villains plays a lot of JT/T9/QT type hands fast on the flop anyways. just remember, we dont need our 3rd barrel to work 100% of the time - just about 55% if we jam (340/660)...im pretty sure 55%+ of the typical range for villain on this river can't stand a 3rd barrel.QT: minraise/fold if you feel your reads are accurate enough.K3: without a specific read that he will play turns fit or fold when flatted (unlikely imo), i would just jam the flop at this stack depth if i'm going to. i can see this hand being close, but the problem is i just highly doubt that his 70% donkbet frequency is going to continue over the long run (i've never seen that). it also depends how wide he is flatting oop, if hes flatting wide and donking this much he misses this flop a ton. if he's flatting a nittier range at this stack depth, he's going to have a lot more 9X in his range. if i were in your position, i'd be skeptical of the long term accuracy of that 70% but it doesnt mean im going to nit up altogether either. i'd jam his donkbet with any 2 overs, AX, KX with the king of hearts. considering you are only raising your button maybe 60%ish at this stack depth, that's going to make up a decent amount of your raising range and you will be able to continue vs this donkbet pretty frequently postflop. fwiw, if he was really flatting super wide and donking 70% you could just jam this flop with literally anything that has equity haha.QT: it's a much better spot to c/r bluff since the average player cbets this dry board so frequently. if villain is cbetting like 85% here, he's going to have a ton of air in his cbetting range. we get a lot of additional value from that fold equity, compared to when we donkbet and get folds.conversely, if villain doesn't cbet wide, this still isn't a good board to donkbet since we will have so many good opportunities to lead the turn as a bluff into a range that is going to have a hard time facing 2 bets.if this flop was like 8s 3d 2d i'd like this a ton more - villains will play the top end of their ranges and any strong draw a lot faster on a more wet board. so the range that flats our donk should be weakish, and people will nit-fold a lot more too. most importantly, the avg villain doesnt cbet a more wet board with quite as wide of a range (and has more combos that can continue vs a cr) - making c/r bluffing less valuable. all of these are really interesting hands.

JT: i would c/r to t120. jamming or bet/calling all turns depending on how i think villain will view a small bet or a jam. XX: pretty sure you didn't post hand correctly here? i can't read souls this well!65: meh, i'm folding turn without any wortwhile reads. he reps 3x/8x well - and even if he is bluffing, he's likely to continue river a ton and we aren't prepared to call that. K4: flop checkback is really good vs villain c/r wide. his line reps 8X/JX/67 all very well, and minbet + potbet doesn't really stand out as a "bluffy" line to me. i'd fold, but if you find he is leading turn/rivers with a really high frequency when you checkback then i would start calling down here.Q4s: well, i don't think you are getting him to fold KX no matter what you do obv. the rest of his range is going to be draws/air mostly - so actually you should be ahead of all of that still. T3: if you think he limps a wide range, lead flop. if you think he limps a range that really connects to this board, c/c flop (why lead if we have no fold equity? why lead into a strong range and get raised off our decent equity?)KJ: it's a flop he should miss so much, so i can't think of anything i wouldnt cbet here - even vs a wide c/r frequency. definitely cbet/call jam.