Micro Hyper Turbo.
Hand 11 of match. Villain opening 95% from the SB and pre flop 3bets 40%. Folding to my cbets 33% of the time.
Should I have folded here to the JAM ??? !!!
Seat 1: kiskartali (550 in chips)
Seat 2: TheCleaner01 (450 in chips)
kiskartali: posts small blind 10
TheCleaner01: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TheCleaner01 [7s 5s]
kiskartali: raises 20 to 40
TheCleaner01: raises 80 to 120
kiskartali: raises 430 to 550 and is all-in
TheCleaner01: folds
Uncalled bet (430) returned to kiskartali
kiskartali collected 240 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 240 | Rake 0
Seat 1: kiskartali (button) (small blind) collected (240)
Seat 2: TheCleaner01 (big blind) folded before Flop
You are looking on the wrong stats.
It would be much more interesting how often he 4bets, folds to your 3bet and how often he does cbet himself.
You have a drawing hand. But you are not deep enough to play draws to the fullest. Therefore, you are leaving (mostly) from the FE.
You 3bet.
He 4bet jams.
Unless you have very good reads that this can be profitable, you instant fold here.
Hi.
Villain 3bets 33%, he folds to my 3bet 42% of the time, sorry got that mixed up. Cant find Villains 4bet range on the CoffeeHUD Lite, ( I dont think its included ) but as far as I know 4 bets were non existent with this villain.
I kind of got away from this hand as I had been calling too wide generally with marginal hands like this and got burnt a few too many times.
Its that boarder line of when to call a shove with a 3bet hand Im trying to work out... 75s no ? K6o no ??.. etc. When I have a hand like AJo and I 3bet light im happy to call a shove sure, but its the lower ranking 3bet hands that are in a tricky area....
Thanks for the help.
Go forth and CRUSH !
Against a very agressive villain (80+ pfr) you should expand your value 3bet range. You can 3bet wider even at 20-25bb's. This means you can add any Ax to your 3betshove range. I don't like usually non all-in 3bets with hands like AJo, only if villain going 4bet ai frequently (maybe because you made a lot of 3bet). If villain's minraise frequency is high at 15-20bb too, you can 3bet shove profitably K9o+, QTo+. These hands are better for calling, but if villain is very aggro postflop too, mostly 3betshove is better. Light 3bet's are good, but I think they are better with hands you dont want to call with. Like Q2s-Q4s, J2s-J4s, T2s-T4s. Suited one gappers like 75s are better for preflop call. Of course you need at least 30-40 hands, dont assume, that if a villain raised his first 5 small blinds, then his pfr is 80%+ from SB, but the probability is higher. And watch out: There are players who minraise a lot at 20-25 bb's, like 90%, and their minraise range drops to 50-60% at 18bb and under for example.
And then it comes down to game flow... ? When there's so much opportunity to exploit with so many hands I find there comes after appx 10 hands a "disbelief" moment from our villain, where he generally thinks..."This can't be true, he's running all over me !" Which was about at that point in our match.
Combining the logic, maths, game flow and psycology is what I really enjoy.
Thanks for the help.
Go forth and CRUSH !
Cleaner,
Other replies have covered whether 3b 75s is a good play or not.
To answer your question whether, once you have 3b, can you call? see below:
S = 22.5 BB
P0 = 1.5 BB
Villain min raises 1.5 BB
P1 = 1.5 + 1.5 = 3.0 BB
Hero 3b 3BB
P2 = 3.0 + 3.0 = 6.0 BB
Villain 4b all in (22.5 - 0.5 - 1.5) = 20.5 BB
P3 = 6.0 + 20.5 = 26.5 BB
Hero has to call (22.5 - 1.0 - 3.0) = 18.5 BB
to win (26.5 + 18.5) = 45.0 BB
EV(call) = E * (45.0) - 18.5
You need (18.5 / 45.0) = 41% equity against villains 4b jamming range to breakeven on this call
If villain is opening 95% of hands, consider how much of his opening range he needs to then 4b jam for this call to be profitable:
Min raise range
95%
95%
95%
95%
95%
% of min raise range which 4b jams over 3b
20%
40%
60%
80%
100%
4b jam range
19%
38%
57%
76%
95%
Equity of 75s vs 4b jam range
35%
37%
39%
41%
43%
EV of calling 4b jam
-2.75 BB
-1.85 BB
-0.95 BB
-0.05 BB
0.85 BB
In the table above, you can see, unless you are certain that villain is opening 95% of his hands and then spewtard 4b jamming over any 3b with this entire opening range, calling the 4b is not going to be profitable at 22.5 BB effective stacks.
Therefore, at the decision node where you have already 3b 75s and then villain 4b jams => fist pump fold.
Chances are you are up against the top of his range and have about 30% equity.
EV(call) = 0.3 * 45.0 - 18.5 = -5.0 BB
Note: Equity of hand vs villain's range estimated using propokertools online simulator (the % range is indicative only - it's not neccessarily consistent with how villains rank their hands).
http://www.propokertools.com/simulations/show?g=he&h1=7x5x&h2=19%25&s=generic
http://www.propokertools.com/simulations/show?g=he&h1=7x5x&h2=38%25&s=generic
http://www.propokertools.com/simulations/show?g=he&h1=7x5x&h2=57%25&s=generic
http://www.propokertools.com/simulations/show?g=he&h1=7x5x&h2=76%25&s=generic
http://www.propokertools.com/simulations/show?g=he&h1=7x5x&h2=95%25&s=generic
You excel yourself ! I tried to work the maths out before I posted this hand, but I was stuck... It was just too heavy for me to get my head around....
Thanks for the clear explanation, copied and pasted into my knowledge book, Thank You !
Go forth and CRUSH !
You're welcome.
An interesting extension to the above, is at what effective stack size are we better off calling a 4b jam after 3b 75s, even though we were only doing it as a bluff and we know we are up against the top of villain's range?
That is, once effective stacks become sufficiently small, even though you were 3 betting as a bluff, you are obliged to call a 4b jam because it is better than folding.
For effective stack S
P0 = 1.5 BB
Villain min raises 1.5 BB
P1 = 1.5 + 1.5 = 3.0 BB
Hero 3b 3.0 BB
P2 = 3.0 + 3.0 = 6.0 BB
Villain 4b jams (S - 0.5 - 1.0) = (S - 2.0) BB
P3 = 6.0 + (S - 2.0) = (S + 4.0) BB
Hero has to call (S - 1.0 - 3.0) = (S - 4.0) BB
to win (S + 4.0) + (S - 4.0) = 2S BB
EV(call) = E * 2S - (S - 4.0)
solve for S
where
EV(call) = 0
E =30%
0 = 0.30 * 2 * S - S +4
S = 4 / 0.4 = 10.0 BB
So at effective stacks less than 10BB, if the action goes villain min raise, hero 3b non-all-in, villain jams, it is better to call a jam than fold even if you know villain is jamming with a pure value range.
This probably isn't going to matter in reality as at such short effective stacks you will likely be 3b jamming if you 3bet.
Dont think you should be 3betting this hand as it plays well postflop, you should be flatting all your hands that play well postflop like 67 suited, jack ten suited etc and 3 betting a more polarised range that consitsts of value and trashy hands that dont play well postflop and you are just 3betting for fold equity, when you 3bet 75s you are essentially turning a hand that plays well postflop into a bluff. Most of the time hes gona 4bet shove you or fold.
Thanks Arron !
Go forth and CRUSH !