Just watched a husng video where a pre flop minraiser cbets A4 on a A 6 8 rainbow flop. Let's assume were 70bb deep
Villain who had called the minraise OOP with A6 chose not to check raise the flop, just calls the flop cbet. The pre flop raiser then checks the turn with A4 and the author of the video criticizes this play.
I take this exact same line with A4 on A68 in husngs (bet flop, check turn, and either check call or bet the river if checked to) 75bb deep and it's a very common spot for me
Here is my reasoning for that line. Please tell me if any of it is bad, and especially why
As the pre flop raiser in husngs most regs cbet any ace high board. So as the pfr with A4 I cbet A68 100% with a range that is a lot wider than Ax obviously. Any pair, any ace, any draw, and a big chunk of air that missed completely. So flop is completely standard I think we agree on that. The standard villain out of position knows that pre flop raisers cbet ace high flops in general, and therefor they can profitably call with any pair and any draw. Creative players even continue with random floats sometimes to stab the river if they smell weakness on the turn
Once a flop cbet on a ace high board gets called I don't think that most players get 3 streets of value from worse with A4. I think 8x and 6x are likely to pay off twice but not often 3 barrels. So I don't think checking turn with A4 equals missing out on value. I actually think it maximizes value on the river because he's more likely to get looked up light for not betting the turn. Also checking the turn with A4 might induce riverbluffs from missed draws like 79-9T etc, or from random floats from more creative players. T9 etc can hit a pair that pays off a riverbet from A4
I find it worse to bet flop/ check turn on a J high flop for example because if you check the turn you give away a lot of overcard equity to opponents. But on a rainbow ace high flop you don't give away that much equity and there are also no flush draws out there in this hand
Another small reason for taking this line with A4 is that by checking the turn you also control the pot size in the very unlikely event that you are beat. Which is very unlikely because your pre flop flatting range doesn't have a lot of aces in it, and there's the card removal effect of HIS ace.
If any of this is incorrect or there's a flaw in the reasoning feel free to tell me. It's a very common line for me and I don't see why I should get rid of it
Alright, so i understand where you are coming from with your line, but you need notes on opp to use that line. The reason is because you just simply lose value when you don't bet this turn vs a random opp. For example, you said that a player might bluff the river on a missed draw? So your assuming he won't call a turn bet with that same draw? Some players call really wide and other players won't turn there 6x 8x into a bluff on the river and will just try to get to showdown value. If you know that your opp calls alot of flops, but folds to a ton of turn bets than your line is probably the best line to take, but overall just betting the turn will be the best play vs most opponents. Hope this helps.
PBOGZ
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Definitely agree with the aspect of losing value vs draws if you're playing a typical passive opponent who is not likely to stab rivers with missed draws. Then you just end up with 1 street of value instead of 2
When I say a player might bet the river with a missed draw, I do assume he would often call a turn bet with that draw. Like Td9d on As 6d 8c 2d but even some gutters will fold to a turn barrel.
However, I also assume he would almost never bet the river if he misses that draw because your range for betting flop AND turn has a lot more aces in it than your range for cbetting flop (which people do with their entire range) and then not betting the turn. Because it looks like you tried to steal the flop with air and have now given up the turn. So in both scenarios you end up with 2 streets of value with A4. Not vs missed straight draws but vs hands like 6x and 8x, and hands like 9T - 97 which hit a pair on the river or so. I think on a ragged board like this that villains have some pair a lot more often than a draw which gives up on the river
I tend to bet flop and bet turn on boards with a lot more obvious straight and flush draws out there, and non ace high boards where not betting the turn gives away overcard equity as well. But this line with a ragged ace is very standard for me.
I'm not trying to be the wise guy or anything. I know that many of you are a lot better than me. This line is just one I take ten times every day and it's hard to get rid of it
I haven't watched this video, only reacting to your comment:
1) Which line is the best one to take vs random (unknown) player? Population tendecies depend a lot on a stake level you play. Typical $200 player plays differently than player at $15 stakes. So maybe in your games your line is the best one.
2) I think turn card is very important to consider, e.g.
K - villain could float the flop with K-high, now hits the king and you could easily get 3-streets of value
A - villain will not give you credit for trips, calls you down with any pair = 3-streets of value
any card bringing back door flash draw - villain could have that draw and call the turn (maybe he is passive and would not be bluffing river if he misses)
6 or 8 - I would probably check these turns - little bit of pot control, villain could bluff the river representing credible hand (trips), villain will not double float on that turn.
3) I would think about gameflow.
If I made a successful 3 - barrel bluff in this match, maybe villain is angry and this time willing to call really light.
I've only recently restarted grinding husngs and play low to build some roll.
Mostly $10 games with the player field being quite incompetent. A mixture of calling stations and maniacs, and occasionally regs who are trying to move up. I am a reg but I have leaks. It doesn't really show at $10 games but it does when I move up
I've played $20s before a few years ago. I was slightly beating them but as I move up I feel like I am being overpowered in general. Higher pre flop raise % that I don't know how to handle, nobody folds to cbets that much. I get floated more often and when I barrel to defend myself I run into an obvious call, exposed to more 3bets (bluffs I assume), lighter cbets and barrels. Very often I feel like I should be calling with bluffcatchers but I tend to always fold unless I think I'm almost always winning
So if a NL100 reg tells me I am missing value by not betting turn that might be one of the reasons why I feel like I'm getting run over sometimes