Beating bunch of regs(thinking player etc) at the 7s but on a sick downswing vs fish (weird play etc) ve watch close to 2 time sentin pack and 1 time chadders0 hyper pack. I just dont figure out how this happen. Only think i see is even if i play good vs fish i guest i should be playing like them just because no one seem to care about my aggression and they call 3 street with straight draws and smash us a showdown with non showdown hands -.- I really just dont know what to do anymore i guest i should take shot at 15s just to play better player...
Hello genius,
You would need to put in volume to even out and come out profitable. Also u would need to take notes and adjust soonest to any forms of fish.
By rigidly following a style will not be optimal.
regards,
like i said my style is pretty aggressive and only or almost 3 betting for value at the stakes because of the fish pool. Base on what ive seen so far i think im better to develop a style (or gameplan) for the biggest part of the fish at the stake like dont try to 3x when they limp since most of them limp call 76o. I know every player is different and i should not be playing A particular gameplan vs all player but this is just how i feel after been beat by bunch of fish after 600+ HH.
Dont Let Variance Affect You!
Your biggest edge is always from the fishes. If u are confident on your play, volume will reveal your edge. I think even 5000 games is not enough to conclude. Would like to encourage u not to give up !
Regards
thanks for these words. Considering relisten sentin pack + 2 tabling to have higher volume..im sure i can beat this stakes and higher already but how can fish crush me like the hell and reg rematch then decline me or talking sh** on me rematch then excuse and leave..lol
Dont Let Variance Affect You!
This is illogical.
=> If you can't beat weak players, why would you favour your chances against stronger players?
It sounds like you are trying to play a static strategy vs everyone and failing to adjust to exploit your specific opponent's tendencies.
For example, if your opponent is a passive player who passively chases weak draws, you can adjust your ranges to exploit him by:
- expanding your value betting range and value betting thinner
- contracting your bluffing range
Running 3barrel bluffs profitably requires that:
- your opponent has a weak or capped range based on their action within the context of the board texture
- you have a strong perceived range
- your opponent has a fold button.
If these conditions do not hold, the profitability of 3barrel bluffing decreases dramatically.
Additionally, you clearly understand the value of aggression in heads up short stacked holdem but maybe you're overdoing it?
Say you open every button, cbet every flop and 3barrel off every turn and river.
You're going to be taking down a lot of pots.
Think for a second about how you would exploit yourself?
=> The passive nitfish is actually going to be just about maximally exploiting you in many turn and river spots for a small number of large pots relative to the large number of small pots you're taking down
=> If you fail to adjust your frequencies / ranges you can be exploiting yourself!
I think aggression is probably the second biggest contributor to a good player's expectation after position, with their actual hand being ranked about 3rd.
But it is the contributor which polarises our expectation distribution vs different players' tendencies the most.
You have to be careful the working assumptions required to make your plays profitable actually exist in the situation / opponent tendencies you are faced with.
I would NOT recommend increasing your volume by multi-tabling if you're struggling to beat the stake you're playing.
Unless you are a particularly good multi-tasker, you are going to be missing a lot of reads which you should be making about your opponent's tendencies by spreading your attention between tables vs different opponents.
Good poker is about building assumptions about how your opponent plays and thinks about his hands and executing strategies to exploit weaknesses in his play.
There are a lot of weak players @ $7 level, but that doesn't mean you can just auto-pilot some static default strategy and make money against them,
The deviation in their weaknesses and associated maximally exploitative strategies to make the most money possible against them is VERY WIDE.
This means you NEED TO BE PAYING MORE ATTENTION to what they are doing, not less.
I think you're being a bit irrational and have an excellent opportunity to plug some fundamental & mental leaks in your game if you can be objective about it.
It sounds like you would benefit from slowing down a little bit, thinking hard about what your opponent's frequencies and tendencies and how to maximise your expectation incorporating every piece of information you have available to you when you're completely focused. Allocate 5 seconds to every decision and if the best decision is already clear to you, make yourself spend the time considering how villain should be adjusting to what you're doing? This will help you better recognise your opponent's weaknesses, your perceived ranges / image and when you need to adjust. Get inside your opponent's head and don't miss good learning opportunities when you get outplayed by dismissing villain's play as awful => why did he make the play? AND how can you exploit it?
Poker is not an easy game.
It's a game of VERY small edges and EVERY decision matters.
very good words Cdon like always, we both know we have to have a defaut strategy then after we have reads on villain we can deviate a bit from it to use stats/reads to make either more profitable play. Well mabei dont adjust enough vs villain but things is im getting soo much confused when a certain villain ck/c all street with Top-pair top kicker and couple hands after play same with on FD let say. Most of the time each stats/reads dont work together it all messy and hell confusing. So pretty hard to adjust when villain is playing a weird game like that. I understand i should more focus on villain tendaties and all that stuff, but some at this level dont even care about our actual ranges and perceives ranges so even if my plan is pretty setup correctly he wont play as i think he should let say...we except most villain to ck/r Top-pair on draw heavy board or 3bet value hands preflop or even open jam low pocket pairs but bunch are just 3x AA and also 76o and 3betting those hands aswell. So i really dont know what i should do after all this fact. Maybe i learn too much concepts applying for higher stakes games? Maybe i should only bet for value and never bluff or bet draws at this levels? I just really dont see how we can make a plan to play vs this population tendencies when they are unpredictable for the most part..
Dont Let Variance Affect You!
I know what you mean.
Working out how a fish thinks is confusing as hell because you would never play the hand that way.
Some things to look for and some hints which might help:
1. Button opening behaviour (frequency & composition)?
- fold?
- min raise?
- 3x ? (hint usually has very transparent bet sizing tells, and you can liberally attack the weak sizing)
- limping? (hint can conditionally strengthen raising range, careful about 3b bluffing vs frequent limpers)
- open jam?
2. BB behaviour (frequency & composition)?
- fold?
- flat?
- 3b? ( hint > 15-20% villain probably has a 3b bluffing range)
- tendencies vs limps?
3. Are they positionally aware? How many hands are they playing from the button relative to those from the BB? (hint if a villain is playing more hands in position than out of position, they are more likely to be a thinking player)
4. How do they play their value hands of various relative strengths? Fast? Slow? Are they a tricky? eg. jam over a 3x after limping 20-25BB?
5. How do they play their air? Do they give up? Do they bluff?
6. How do they play their draws? Passively? Aggressively? What does this do to their other ranges? eg. if a player does not c/r with semi-bluffed FDs on tt boards, it conditionally affects the composition of their c/r range. (hint c/r NAI are usually weighted to strong value holdings if a player plays their draws passively) What about their missed draws? Will they bluff them or will the give up? (hint bluff catching vs villain who bluffs missed draws can be both profitable and fun when chat rage follows)
7. Risk aversity? Do they get scared and miss value bets when draws come in? (hint these types of players are less likely to run big bluffs for their entire stacks) Will they overprotect their made hand on drawy boards? (hint these players will size their value bets bigger on drawy boards, adjust your ranges accordingly)
8. Are they capable of adjusting? eg. reg fish knows to open a lot of buttons and cbet frequently then gives up wo a hand => you defend wide and increase your c/r bluffing frquency and add in some OOP floats + river bluff leads on boards where no one ever has anything => does he stop cbetting as much? does he decrease his opening frequency or introduce a limping range? (hint against players capable of adjusting be aware of your own image, if you have been min raising a lot from the button 20-25BB, consider introducing a limping range 15-20 BB deep to preempt an expanded 3b jamming range as you get shallower)
I'm always trying to hone my fish hunting skills.
If anyone has any other tells or hints please post :)
Thorough observations.
A couple of thoughtS which spring to mind.
How do they respond to your weak or aggressive strategy?
Many poor players will quite happily play and prefer a passive game. They may start out aggressive pre-emptively, but if they see it quieten down they can play very softly, barely raising a pot; but as you become aggressive they respond and start pushing all-in. Other players may start out fairly passive but sensing they are a against a passive opponent will try and dominate. Some players will just be passive or aggressive regardless, So what kind of game do you want to play against this player and can it be induced?
Are they stubborn at defending their limped small-blind?
This can be an important adjustment - a lot of the poor players aren't raising much pre-flop and so the quality of their limped hands can be quite high (and wide). A strategy of raising with air, particularly in short stacked turbos can be very problematic - you might put in 15-20% with junk and then follow it up with a similar bet out of position (probably not knowing where you are) get called and suddenly you've wasted a lot of chips frivolously and in such a way in which you have exercised little judgement: this kind of player has limped pre-flop, called a raise - neither of which is that informative - and before you have any more information, a third to half your stack has been committed. Against poor players your are looking for strategies which discriminate over skill not those which level the playing field (which indeed may be fairly obligatory aganst better players to mix up your game).This is, I would say, the challenge of super-turbos
Are they candidates to check-raise a missed draw if you min-bet the river?
When they've just lost a big pot, and are relatively short stacked, how likely are they to shove? Are they capable of folding three or four hands in a row or are they instantly looking to double up?