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MojaveDreams's picture
Shoving low suited connecters 23s 34s

Ok i've been experimenting with this every now and again i will shove these 12bb+  basically making it look like a low pocket pair etc .

I have not got a large enough sample to make any decisions but i would estimate it accomplished its goal 70% of the time which was to pick up a a few bb

Its probablly stupid lol, but i just feel it makes me appear more aggresive than i really am adding these hands to my shoves.

Any thoughts on these kind of hands? is it missing value by not just calling to see a flop? 

cdon3822's picture
I worked through the calcs

I worked through the calcs here. 
http://www.husng.com/content/suited-connector-9bbs
 
The difference between jamming low pocket pairs and suited connectors is your equity when called. 
Low pocket pairs are usually a flip (about 48-52% equity) vs villains' call open shove range. 
Suited connectors usually have equity in the range 40-45% vs villains' call open shove range. 
In both cases, you would be making most of your profit from fold equity but suited connectors have a lot worse equity when you run into a hand in villains' calling range. 
 
Low suited connectors have pretty bad equity when called (30-35%) vs what will presumably be a tightening calling open jam range as you get deeper. 
You will be losing too much the times you are called relative to what you make from fold equity that it will be a profitable play.
For example 32s @ 12BB vs a call open jam range of [AA-22,AxKx-Ax2x,AxKy-Ax2y,KxQx-Kx9x,KxQy-KxTy,QxJx,QxTx,QxJy,JxTx]
has e = 32.2%, c = 27.1%
The expectation of open jamming 3x2x vs this assumed static call open jam range @ various stack depths is: 

S
Δ (S-0.5)
Δ (S)

15
-0.22
-0.72

14
-0.12
-0.62

13
-0.03
-0.53

12
0.07
-0.43

11
0.17
-0.33

10
0.26
-0.24

9
0.36
-0.14

8
0.46
-0.04

7
0.55
0.05

6
0.65
0.15

where 
Δ (S-0.5) = expected change in stack compared to folding
Δ (S) = expected change in stack from start of hand
(Note you will need to read the post in the link above to understand the methodology behind these calculations).
 
You can see, open jamming a hand like 3x2x is pretty bad > 12BB. 
Depending on your opponent, raise-folding, limping or open folding will have better expectation. 

MojaveDreams's picture
i thought it wouldn't turn

i thought it wouldn't turn out well lol thanks cdon for an excellent reply again.
i guess it is just a case of sticking somewhat close to nash then of your general strategy readless

cdon3822's picture
Careful

Nash is a useful open jamming guide < 8BB. 
Deeper than that, you will be able to yield better expectation using your other options beyond jam & fold => raising and limping.