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mrspiky's picture
All in pre flop

Hi all,

2 scenarios. Lets pretend is the first hand vs unknown.

You are the button at 10/20 you raise to 60 villain 3 bet to 180. which hands do you shove or reraise commit? 

You are BB. this time you 3bet and get shoved on. which hands are you happy to call with.

Does Sharkscope or anything else affect your decision?

I think my troule hands in these spots are 10s, JJ and AQ. If I know villain has a bad sharkscope I don't feel too good calling a shove with AK either as most times I am flipping.

Thanks

beatmeupaa's picture
.

I would insta shove KK+ if the guy is a bad player according to sharkscope because bad players make bad mistakes.
If he would be a solid winning reg, I would probably 4bet with AK, QQ+ and call his shove.

In general I would not like to go broke in the 1st hand, so TT JJ AQs etc. I would defend vs. a 3bet by calling and to see what the flop brings. Even if that can bring you into trouble a lot too.

But I am not a professional so far, so lets see what the good players say. :)

RyPac13's picture
I think it's usually a

I think it's usually a mistake not to 4-bet hands such as 99 or TT first hand vs a 3-bet, particularly in lower to mid stakes.

If you're playing higher stakes and a very familiar opponent, it might make sense to play it differently, but 99% of the people posting here shouldn't think twice about 4betting 99+ first hand.  Hands such as 66-88 should be more of the gray area hands.

What's the plan when you call a 3bet with TT vs an unknown?  Hope for unders then raise his lead and watch him fold his overcards most of the time?  Give up on scary boards that are more likely to hit AK type hands?  That's not a great strategy because many players in the low to mid stakes are 3betting a wide range of hands on the first hand and you'll lose the pot too often with the best hand.  4-bet and watch the hands that get it in and how many folds you get otherwise.

jackoneill's picture
Are we talking about first

Are we talking about first hand or first 3bet ?

Fist hand may be a bit different, but if it's the first 3bet within the first 10-15 hands, then I think it's a huge leak to go broke with JJ or AQ - if he min3bets, I fold everything except 88+, only calling them on set value - and if it's a normal sized 3bet, then I jam QQ+ and AK and fold all other hands.

Maybe I'm just running extremely bad in January, but I dropped 50+ buy-ins on the $20's and $30's where I've constantly run into these super passive guys who only seem to 3bet at all if they have Aces or Kings - and most of the time they seem to openjam (or making a huge oversized 3bet jam with) AK and min3bet AA/KK - which means I can't continue with QQ or AK myself.

QQ was a huge losing hand for me in January - I never got it in ahead with it, either I was chopping with AK or dead against AA/KK.

I also felt pretty much exploited in the first hand of the match - my opponents were catching cards like a young god and always seemed to know that most people get it in light in this spot.

I'm just feeling so horrible because these people think they're super intelligent by playing their big hacks "super tricky" while in fact they're super exploitable.

Min3betting Aces and only Aces is just so bad especially when you're deep, but I defended way too often and then couldn't fold an overpair on the flop.

Of course, first hand is a different story because it's a lot less likely that he actually has a strong hand - but if it's his first 3bet, then he can simply wait for that hand before he 3bets.

In so many videos, the instructors said that you should start 3betting early because you don't want to have Aces when you're doing it the first time - but most of these super passive opponents seem to be doing exactly that, wait till they have Aces and then 3bet you the first time.

Well, I quit Cereus for the moment, hoping to get some more "normal", more aggressive opponents on Cake and Carbon, constantly playing against nits just sucks so badly.

Jack


RyPac13's picture
Jesus Jack, You sound

Jesus Jack,

You sound scarred by your January experience I'm sorry.

There's no way your default game should be so nitty in these low to mid stakes games, people just aren't that nitty across the board.  I think you just ran into a lot of nits and a lot of the strong part of people's ranges.

Folding an overpair postflop in a husng is one of the worst things a player can do (4 straight or 4 flush board the exception).

People aren't waiting for Aces, otherwise their 3-bet % would be microscopic.  It's probably just variance that you've ran into aces a lot recently, coupled with some subjective memory.

Just be careful of overadjusting to some of these players.  It's good that you can sometimes fold 2nd or 3rd pairs, but learning to fold an overpair is something that is probably counter productive in a husng.  It has more of a place in deep stacked cash.

jackoneill's picture
Yeah, you're right - January

Yeah, you're right - January has really been a horrible month for me, it's just starting to get better after I left Cereus and went to Cake and Carbon.

I must also admit that part of my downswing was probably tilt related - partly because I got too scared to bet my strong hands for value and partly because I kept saying to myself "omg he can't have it again" and stopped paying attention to people's bet sizing, check/raising frequencies etc.

Unfortunately, I payed these nits off a lot each time they hit two pair or a set and I had an overpair - for instance where I had an overpair with AA, but the guy who check/folded the last 50+ hands now suddenly tried to get his stack into the pot as quickly as possible - and I talked myself into him having a lower overpair and called.

It just makes me so sad to realized that these nits all played so predictably bad that I could have gotten away so easily if I just folded my strong hands (including even two pair or weak trips) to their aggression and bet for value relentlessly while they check/called.

So it's just just "oh, I have an overpair", it's realizing "oh, this guy hasn't bet or raised a single time in the last 50+ hands, he has me beat".  Unfortunately, variance always gave me strong hands when that happened.