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BlomadahL's picture
Endgame Winrate in Hypers

After reviewing my database of approx 1k games (14k hands) with a 1% ROI at the Hyper turbo level, I noticed my EV bb/100 winrate at effective stacks ABOVE 8bb is 28bb/100, and effective stacks below 8bb is -18bb/100.
I understand 1k isn't much, but I still think it's enough to give a rough idea.
Admittedly I have not spend much time learning endgame strategy, so that will be my goal over the next few weeks.
So my questions are...
What is a good winrate for effective stacks below 8bb?
and
Since NASH charts are said to be 'unexploitable', does that mean the EV bb/100 will be 0 bb/100 at stacks below 8bb?
 
Kind regards,
BlomadahL

Barrin's picture
Pushing NASH (=unexploitable)

Pushing NASH (=unexploitable) means, that your opponents best adjustment in that spot is to call according to NASH. But being unexploitable means also to surrender any edge that you might have on your opponent. E.g. there might be spots, where NASH advise you to shove 70%, but when your opponent is calling with AA only, you clearly should shove 100%.
The NASH calling range is more tricky. It is, probably, the best range vs the NASH pushing range, but it is not unexploitable, because your opponent does not have to push according to NASH. If your opponent shoves QQ+, but NASH advises you to call 30% because your opponent should push a much wider range, you make a mistake.
If from Hand1 you and your opponent both shove and call according to NASH, noone can get an edge and you both will end up loseing money, because of the rake.

Hi.

BlomadahL's picture
Thanks for your reply Barrin

Thanks for your reply Barrin :)
 
So would you recommend learning both NASH charts and adjusting my ranges according to opponent tendancies to improve my endgame winrate?
 
(I would assume your answer is yes since <8bb play is almost always push/fold?)

coffeeyay's picture
Nash calling range is just as

Nash calling range is just as unexploitable as nash shoving range. It has the same features that it is only best used vs another nash player (vs other players they are exploitable so exploiting them will do better), but whenever it is used it guarantees a decent amount of equity so is always a good choice. The only thing to watch out for is that if your villain is not playing push fold then the nash calling chart is likely useless.
 
Vs the population it makes sense to shove a bit wider than nash and call a bit tighter. I have a free clip from my math in husngs video pack about this the shove/fold situation and a bit about how the ranges end up looking so check it out.

BlomadahL's picture
Thanks Coffee :)    

Thanks Coffee :)
 
 

bogdan314's picture
I disagree with you on Nash

I disagree with you on Nash calling range not being unexploitable. If you are calling according to Nash range, it means you are "trying" to keep the equilibrum. If you opponent does NOT push according to Nash pushing range, it means he is deviating from the Nash equilibrum. And from Nash equilibrum definition: a player cannot improve his expecation by deviating from Nash equlibrum if all other players don't deviate also. Afterall, that's why it's called equilibrum :)
In your example with villain pushing only QQ+ and Nash requiring you to call with 30%, you are still winning long-term. In this case, it can be explained by the fact that, by pushing so narrow (3% I believe) he is folding so many hands that you win so many blinds that even if you call with 30%, you small equity against his strong range + the equity you win from all his folds is still positive and you're winning.
What you actually mean to say is: if your opponent is not pushing according to Nash, you may also deviate from Nash calling ranges and improve your expectation. But this does not mean that sticking to Nash calling range is bad. It's just not maximing the expectation, but it's still positive.