Including rakeback and bonus, etc...and obviously this is speculation, you can't just KNOW, but based on winrates, amount of games you can play at a time, per hour, etc...I just got into playing HU SNGs for variety and fun, but I've been a successful 1/2 and 2/4 NL 6max and FR player and making 80-100k a year isn't unreasonable for 2-3 hours a day of play if you are good, especially with Rush poker now on FT. Just curious how HU SNGs compare. EDIT: Oops, sorry if this is in the wrong forum.
This forum is perfectly fine for your question.I would guess 50-100 players, but I'm not positive.I believe there were 13 players on sharkscope's leaderboard that made over 200k in 2010. However, that does NOT include rakeback, bonuses, blocked players (Treezer is obviously one player that blocked his name and made hundreds of thousands) or any other games or names they play under.I would feel safe in saying 60 players made over 100k, but I wouldn't be surprised if the number were in the 100s or perhaps even 200s.
How about 50k that's my goal?
My estimates for the amount of 100k+ players is already volatile enough, I don't think I can guess with any degree of confidence the amount of 50k+ players, sorry.50k is certainly doable if you play full time and work hard (obviously for players with more experience you may not need to work as hard for 50k, but it's still not something any players do in their sleep at double digit buyin levels or low 3 digit buyin levels).
Thanks Rypac, good point about that Sharkscope number not including rakeback, which is going to be obviously huge if you're a true grinder! (oh to be a red pro!)
Just mentioning that besides ss not including rakeback and tons of people being blocked, it also doesn't account for the different sites one plays. I don't average 10k month in either site alone, but i do more overall. I also think ryan's numbers are a bit too low, but no point in getting into an argument there since there is no way of knowing it
I must be missing something (not like that would be uncommon). If a person averages five turbo games an hour (my matches average about 10 minutes on Stars and Tilt). Plays at the $100.00 level. Plays four hours a day, five days a week. Wins just 56% of their matches. I think that would be more than $50,000.00 a year. Remember this just playing one table and does not include rake back or bonuses. If they play two tables they should be over $100,000.00 a year without including rakeback or bonuses.If the above situation is not a realistic goal, then I am really wasting a lot of time and effort learning how to play HUSnG.PaulIB_FishingHoping he does not have to switch to Heads Up cash
DeuceHigh would you mind informing me of how many hours you play a week on average?PaulIB_FishingStarting to worry that he is wasting valuable time.
"DeuceHigh would you mind informing me of how many hours you play a week on average?"I play an average of 100 hours month, 25/week
Assuming a 6% ROI, you'd be at a little less than $7 per game. So that's $700 a week or a little less than 40k a year single tabling in your example, maybe 60-75k two tabling (you don't usually double money by doubling tables). Still, 20 hours a week is a lot less than most people work and many people work those longer hours for much less pay and free time. Even if you spend 5-10 hours studying or even doing nothing every so often, 30 hours a week with that income is good.Another positive is that there's still more ceiling after that for many. Even if you moved up once a year or every other year the increase in expectation dwarfs many other job fields.At the end of the day that only starts to tell the entire story. There's many other positives (travel freedom, living arrangement) and negatives (long term income potential is unclear, self motivation needs to be consistent). I think the choice depends on the person and situation though.
O.K. I will be honest. I am a math expert when it comes to addition and subtraction. Don't do that ROI stuff. So I figured it out like this.If I play 100 games a week at the $110.00 turbo level and win 56 of them (56%), I profit $1320.00 before subtracting rake. Rake would be $500.00. That would leave me with $820.00 a week. $820.00 a week for 50 weeks (it is a sin not to take a work free vacation) is $41,000.00 a year. O.K. i see where I made my mistake that gave me the figures I used for my last post.Looks I will need to two table or get good enough to play the $220 turbos to reach my $50,000.00 a year goal. Playing more than 20 hours a week is not in the plans.PaulIB_FishingThinks he will need to get better than he originally planned
That's were my goal is too. I am lucky in that I have a small military disablity pension and full medical benefits so this is great for me. Knish is my here not Mike.
At the end of the day that only starts to tell the entire story. There's many other positives (travel freedom, living arrangement) and negatives (long term income potential is unclear, self motivation needs to be consistent). I think the choice depends on the person and situation though. THIS THIS THIS OMG THIS so much !!! :D the thing for me is, the negatives, long term income potential is unclear, mainly this one, is such a bitch, and pretty much the only reason why i am killing myself trying to combine university with playing semi pro poker next to that tho, like, if somehow you could know, poker will stay as it is atm, for the next 100 years or so, i would snap drop out of school and play 24/7 because, really, i cannot think of any other jobs that have these great opportunities, especially when u look at moving up, someone can go from 10s to 100s in maybe like 5 months ish in pokers.
Poker will always be around. Fish will always be playing poker. Recreational players wiill always be playing poker.I guess it is possible they could kill online poker, but the game will continue.We would just have to travel like doyle Brunson, T.J Cloutie and the other road gamblers did in the old days to find good games lol.With all the protesting going on throughout the world, I doubt they will be able to kill online poker. People are getting fed up with the leaders of their countries controlling the personal lives and are starting to make changes. Minor ones at the moment, but changes none the less. Americans will rise up sooner or later and demand the freedom and liberty provide us by the consitution. If not, no problem, Pannama, here I come. PaulIB_FishingMoving to where I can be somewhat free
For me it's just figuring out how much I want to invest learning/playing HU SNGs...I made over 60k last year averagingnly o1.75 hours per day (wife had first baby, in grad school, so not many hours!) playing cash poker, not including rakeback and bonus...and I know I can't do that playing HU SNGs, but they are so addicting... :P Also Deuce, if you're making more than 10k a month on average, just wondering what your regular levels are? I'm thinking to make that much I'd need to make it to at least the $200s and probably the $500s? (Without 10 hours a day mass grinding or something of course)
no way you need to play that high. i do play up to 300$ games but my mate janekaaa for instance, makes more than 10k month playing strictly 100$ games, 2 tabling regular speeds.
Haha of course, but Janekaaa is probably one of the best 100$ player right now. If I am not mistaken (can't check since I am at work), he is first on the leaderboard for the 35-100$ with 11-12% ROI. And whatttt a graph, it's like this guy doesnt even know what variance is! :PAnyway, what I am trying to say is that I think achieveing 120K a year playing 100$ is almost impossible unless you put a tremendious amount of volume and even then...If you look at the leaderboard for the 35-100$ bracket, only the first 4 are on pace to achieve 120K/year. Of course, a lot of players have their stats blocked but still, it can give a general aproximation of how difficult it is.So even with rakeback and bonuses, I think achieving 120K playing the 100s takes a lot of work and dedication.Always take my answer with a grain of salt.Cheers!