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HandsHeldHigh's picture
hypers vs turbos, why?

Hello there, im new here.

 

So i will cut straight to the question which is. Why hypers are so pupular over turbos HU sng?

There is much more learing material on hypers then turbos. Why is it like that? Can anyone can point out that for me? 

have a nice eavening ;)

 

p.s. eng is not my main language, excuse me for grammar. blush

RyPac13's picture
Hypers are more popular

Hypers are more popular because the casual players like playing them more (mostly bc they are fast paced with lots of action), and the regulars will follow the casuals (though also have similar preferences to casual players in terms of the structures they enjoy). If casual players liked slower, deep structures, all the regulars would play those too.
Since hypers are more popular, there is more recent material out for them. But our Premium Pack has probably 400+ turbo videos in it, it used to be the most popular format and we made a majority of our videos for years in that format.
Also worth noting, every single piece of hyper training on this site can help a turbo speed player. A lot of edge in turbo speeds is found in the 30bb and lower stack sizes, you can even extend most of the hyper concepts taught (especially "how to think about hands" type of teaching that we really try to push) into 40bb stack sizes.
Even if I were only to play turbo speeds professionally, I would likely own the best hyper material out there, it's a great way to maximize your edge in turbo games.
Turbos are still popular though, especially at lower to mid levels. We have a turbo pack for those levels by Greenbast, and we'll likely get another turbo pack out there in the first quarter of 2014.
We've been releasing a lot of free turbo material this year as well though, so be sure to check that out (videos by Pbogz, arronwilson, il1keturtles and more).

HandsHeldHigh's picture
it's nice to see some really

it's nice to see some really good answears around here.
looks like im for starying. 

cdon3822's picture
Personally I prefer hypers

Personally I prefer hypers because: 
1. Short stack formats are more easily solved mathematically
2. High action
=> it's more fun to play a format where you play for stacks more often
=> this is especially true of holdem where you don't often make more than a pair
3. Less tilting 
=> some players will disagree with me here because they find the constant coinflipping tilting
=> you end up playing for stacks a lot in hypers with a few points of equity either side of a coinflip
=> but the games go for <= 3 mins
=> you're onto the next game almost instantly which makes it pretty easy to put bad beats behind you and just focus on your next decision
4. Types of fish attracted to the games
=> high action games which last 1-30 hands attracts gamblers
=> I haven't played many reg speeds or turbos but my impression of the limited games I've played was the player pool was mostly nitfish playing their uncreative brand of TAG poker
=> Against these players, there is edge to be had, but it's mostly from stealing blinds from them which makes for pretty boring games
=> Such a player pool means that your games are often going to end up in the low effective stacks (end game) anyway because they won't be risking their chips without a hand and the blinds will keep rising
=> So if you're going to spend 10-15 mins (or whatever it takes to play a turbo or reg speed?) and end up playing @ < 30BB stacks most of the time anyway, why not start there and play 3 min games (think hourly rate)
 
I would be interested in hearing from players who prefer deeper/slower formats  as to why they play them?

ARRONWILSON's picture
I always assumed a lot of

I always assumed a lot of losing players sit hypers when theyre on tilt or looking a gamble, it makes more sense for them to sit a hyper and get their money in preflop mostly flipping than sit a reg speed or turbo game vs a reg where they will most likely get outplayed postflop.  

knoxxxy's picture
I have played most of my

I have played most of my heads up poker in normal speed and turbos - I wouldn't agree that a majority of opponents are TAG players, I find it more common to run in to maniacs at the low to mid stakes, and with the deeper stacks you won't be as forced to put it in with marginal type flipping hands, which is part of the appeal of these types of structures. You are right in saying there are plenty of TAG nitfish players though, and against them it is far more complex than just stealing blinds. If they are unwilling to risk their chips much we can exploit them like crazy with aggressive play of our own, 3 bets, 4bets, continuation betting a high amount, double and triple barreling boards, check raise bluffs - not too boring if you ask me...and by the time it gets down to less than 30bb's we can have worked a solid chip lead which means we can afford to lose a flip or even two when they start putting it in - it is especially sweet when they will then only put the remainder of their chips in when they pick up K-x, A-x or a pocket pair, and we just watch their stack dwindle down.
Some people just prefer to play with an extra edge in any given match against a given opponent, rather than playing with a smaller edge and needing to play many many games to see that edge profiting for you. At times it can be frustrating losing 4 hypers in a row because you had to shove a marginal hand like K-10 at 12bbs and they wake up with a better hand each time. 
I am looking to get into hypers though just to improve my turbo end game, and just because there will be more action as I move up the stakes.

cdon3822's picture
Your observation of the

Your observation of the player pool is definitely more useful than mine.
=> I haven't played many games in reg/turbo speed. 
 
KT @ 12BB is not a marginal hand. 
 
Hypers are a fight for scraps of equity a few percentage points either side of a coinflip. 
Given how often the best hand preflop / on the flop is the best hand by the river in holdem I think short stacked formats marry well with the equity distributions players are interacting with. 
 
If you like deeper stacked post flop games, I'd definitely recommend trying PLO.

knoxxxy's picture
I understand K-10 is not a

I understand K-10 is not a marginal hand @ 12bbs given the situation, that was my point - you've got to get it in. But I would still argue it plays marginally against most opponents calling range, you aren't exactly crushing them when you're called - A lot of your equity comes from fold equity. I was more trying to make the point that because you've got to get hands like that in, it is so much easier to lose any given match to a bad player - because all they have to do is wake up with a better hand than K-10, which is going to happen plenty. As you said - it's a fight for scraps of equity - However this can be highly frustrating when the cards aren't going your way and you string a number of bad games together.

raine72's picture
K10 is way to strong of a

K10 is way to strong of a hand to shove.  It plays very good post flop and depending on opponet it is also a good hand to call 3 bet jams on.  

cdon3822's picture
KT @ 12BB is pretty standard

KT @ 12BB is pretty standard raise call in position and is going all in pre regardless of whether villain limps, min raises or jams out of position. 
It would take pretty extreme reads to deviate from this in my opinion. 
 
I played some turbos today and they were pretty fun. 
They're definitely a format where you can build up more reliable reads to exploit your opponents more than in hypers where you are often relying on correlated reads from their other frequencies.