I got a hyper turbo maths question. I'm trying to work out what range of hands I should be calling all in 3bets at different stack depths and versus various ranges. And I'm not 100% sure I'm doing the maths correct.
Question 1: We raise, our opponent goes all in. So the decision is between calling and folding. If we fold we lose 2bbs. Does that mean we should be calling with any hand that's gonna lose less than 2bbs or win chips versus our opponent's 3betting all in range? For example should we raise / call with QJs if we stand to lose 1.5 bbs?
Question 2: What's the EV equation from which I can derive the equity I need to call? Assuming 1st hand of a hyper on Stars ... is the equation
-40 = my equity (pot) - (1 - my equity) (cost of call)
-40 = x (40 + 500) - (1 - x) (460)
-40 = 540 x - 460 + 460x
420 = 1000 x ..... x = 0.42 ie 42 %
Question 3: I've played cash previously. In cash games the EV of folding is said to be 0. Why then is the EV of folding in sngs not 0? I don't get that.
Any help is much appreciated. Thanks.
Q 1: in a vacuum JQs is a fold vs random hand. The EV(calling) and EV(folding) should solely be based on villains 3-bet jamming range, and frequency, for u to coin the profitabillity of JQ call... if villain is only jamming top 10% of his total hand range, than calling JQs is -EV(call)Q2: E=equity vs villain X=pot size Y=what you need to callEV(calling)=XE-Y(1-E)=XE-Y+YE=E(X+Y)-YY=E(X+Y)E=Y/(X+Y)this equation calculates for ur equity for u to breakeven to make the call AIPFQ 3: In SNG the EV(folding) is still 0 through my understanding, since the 2BB minraise u've commited to pot is already be considered Dead money. since its considered money contributed to the pot.... EV(folding) is neutral, the only -EV(folding) scenarios i could think of is folding AA vs villain, since theoretically speaking, AA is +EV vs any of villains jamming range when u minraise....
Ty for the response ka.
So Q2, we agree on the EV equation. That's good.
But I think you are wrong concerning Q1 and Q3 (I only think so, I don't know). Have you read Mers's ebook? In it he gives lots of examples where the EV of folding isn't 0. For example, openfolding the sb he writes has an EV of -0.5bb.
I think you are right that in cash games the EV of folding is always 0. But after reading Mers's ebook, it seems to me that in sngs the benchmark for the call isnt 0 EV but an EV of -2bb, which is what we lose when we fold. In other words any hand which stands to lose less than 2 bbs or win chips versus our opponent's 3bet shoving range becomes a call.
I think that's right, but I'm still not sure. So, pls ka5321 or anybody else correct me if I'm wrong.
If you would openfold every SB, within 100 hands in the sb you would lose, which is equal to -50 bb / 100. Every hand you play that reduces this overall lose has a positive expectation, meaning that the EV is > -0.5BB / hand. If you reduce your loss with 96o from -0.5BB to -0.4BB your equity with 96o is still negative (because you lose 0.4bb / hand) but it increases your equity to the other option you have: folding. This is way it is easier to asume that folding has an Equity of 0, you might also think that it changes your equity base equity (-0.5BB) by +/- 0.0000000BB.You cannot use a difference approach for Cash Game then for HU SNG, at least not in the blind battle. If you are playing Cash Game and you are in the SB you have to post the SB and if you fold it everytime you lose 50BB in 100 hands. But all other positions (other then the blinds, and speaking about an no-ante table) enjoy different conditions:If you make a 6max stats analyis over your big database where you have 1 Mio Hands for every position and you notice that you lose -2.00BB / 100 in EP this is a no-go because you could fold every hand every time when you are in EP and your equity would immediatially change to +/- 0.00BB / 100.
Hi.
ty for the response Barrin. I think I get what you are saying. I also found a thread on 2plus2 that deals with this question ... http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/15/poker-theory/folding-always-0-ev-98...
Genher, ty for the link. I had a quick look at the thread, looks good. I will read through it properly when I have more time.
there was a post on 2+2 where I did some calc for the eff stack in BB where you can minRaise/call the 3 bet shove and made some tables.http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/185/heads-up-sng/3-bet-calling-ranges-... from post 26(1.5+Eq vs the range)/(1-(2*Eq vs the range)) that should give you the effective stack in BB AFTER posting but BEFORE minRaising when you can call the 3 bet shove.