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TheCleaner01's picture
Rookie Move.

$3.50 Level 2 I'm in the BB with KK, Villain limps in. So far villain quite passive, has taken a beating.

 

I want to extract value with the KK and believe he would fold to a shove here. 

So I make a small 3bet and of course the flop comes out Qc 9s Ac... With another Q on the turn.

Here's the hand - ? I feel my jam at the end was a panic move not knowing what to do and not wanting to fold my kings ?

I have run into this before and I'm not sure what's my best line.

how should I feel this out with my bet sizeing ? Are we looking to get it all in or would anyone fold here ?

 

Any advice would be really helpfull,

Many Thanks.

 

No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players

$1.44+$0.06

Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter

SB Peco79 460  
BB Hero 540  

Effective Stacks: 15bb

Blinds 15/30

  • Pre-Flop (45, 2 players) Hero is BB
  • hKcK
Peco79 calls 15, Hero raises to 60, Peco79 calls 30
  • Flop (120, 2 players)
  • cQs9cA
Hero bets 90, Peco79 calls 90
  • Turn (300, 2 players)
  • hQ
Hero goes all-in 390, Peco79 folds

 

  • Final Pot: 300
 
  • Hero wins 690 ( won +150 )
  • Peco79 lost -150
Dipl.Komp.'s picture
given his limp, i rather see

given his limp, i rather see him hit bottom pair, a low flush draw, or a straight draw, or a combination of them (maybe 97 of clubs, or just 56 of clubs or an offsuit JT). you don´t want to chase them away with an overbet. sth like 120 should be a better sizing imo.
if you shove the turn, you should only get a call from a hand that beats you (except your opponent is brain dead, which can happen at that level though :) ). you don´t want that.
 
cheers
s.

TheCleaner01's picture
Thanks !

Yup, I kind of hated that shove as I knew as soon as id done it, I was either crushed or that was it, game over with no more chance to extract value.
So, if I had bet 120 and he called... what then :-) ... ??? Would we put him on an A with low kicker or Qx ? Would we check back and go again on the river ?
This is where my panic dumb shove comes from I think... Fear, I gets u. :-)
Thanks for the help.
S.

Go forth and CRUSH !

Dipl.Komp.'s picture
if you get called, i still

if you get called, i still wouldn´t worry about Ax or Qx (most passive players still would raise Ax PF.) at that level, many players can´t fold a flush draw or a straight draw on the turn when they should. what about his raising frequency? is he like a 100% limper or does he have a "normal" raising range for his passivity?     

Barrin's picture
What range did you put him

What range did you put him on?

Hi.

TheCleaner01's picture
I just checked the HH.He was

I just checked the HH.He was opening appx 70%.To start was raising 8x/10x the BB from the button ?! I put him on over valueing low pocket pairs with this bet sizing ? ( He calmed down with this later )Shoving appx 15% of hands.Jams pocket nines.Limping 65o. For me, when the Q comes on the turn, I dont know what to do here. If he has 'Trips' ( Thank you :-)) Im screwed, if he has an Ace, im dead. He limps in, but has called every bet I made ? Whats he doing...? Did he limp in with pokect Jacks and is waiting for me to give up ? So I put him on JJ which I find a bit odd as i think he would jam this, flush draw, or paired a nine on the flop. What do you think ?

Go forth and CRUSH !

Barrin's picture
Putting an opponent on a

Putting an opponent on a range, is something that has a big element of guessing. It is not different for the pros then it is for you or me, the different is that they have a better understanding of "range". 95% of the players, could not tell you what cards are included in a 15% range.Villain can hold many hands here. He can have Ax, K9, JT, many flush draws and so on and so forth. You say that villain is not calling your shoves pre very light, so we assume that he is not braindead and has some kind of understanding / strategy. Now you do bet bigger then pot size. What happens now is that you isolate yourself versus a better range.He will not fold an Ace, he will not fold a Queen and he will not fold 99. He might fold JTo tough. But do you want him to fold JTo? On the flop JTo has an OESD, which gives him 8 outs (respectively 6 outs, with you haveing KK). Now with the board pairing on the turn a King does still make him a straight, but does improve YOUR hand to a Full House.So, what do you want: Value? Right. So is isolating yourself versus a better range giving you Value? No it is not.What you wanna do here is to bring the money in. In order to get a worse hand to call, you can bet like 180 (there is a FD and several straight draws, you cannot bet to small) on the turn, odds-call any raise and if he does not put you all in, shove any river. Even with a hand like 88, J9, JJ he might have an odds call on the river.You need good reads to give up your kings here. If he has an Ace.....happens. Open next one and play it exactly the same way.

Hi.

TheCleaner01's picture
Downloading the knowledge

Downloading the knowledge right here !Thanks man.Off topic, I cleaned the fish tank here today... and the big fish, the oldest one.... hes looking at me funny... like he 'knows' me... I dont like that.I gotta study more, play more, get into the... what is it ? unconscious competence modus ? Will re read, digest, and think.Thanks man.

Go forth and CRUSH !