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longjohn's picture
Should I be shoving the river for value?

No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter BBmullemosse2035  BTNHero965  Effective Stacks: 32bb Blinds 15/30 Pre-Flop (45, 2 players) Hero is BTN Hero raises to 90, mullemosse calls 60 Flop (180, 2 players) mullemosse checks, Hero bets 90, mullemosse calls 90 Turn (360, 2 players) mullemosse checks, Hero bets 240, mullemosse calls 240 River (840, 2 players) mullemosse checks, Hero.... The villain is passive and loose so I think he will be calling the flop with any pair and any FD maybe A highOn the turn I think he's still calling with most of his 4's , all his tens and Ks, I'm not sure how he would play a flush, he min raised me on the flop once with 2p but then again he is passive so I don't know if he is doing it with all of his strong hands, maybe half the time hes raising half the time hes calling?On the river I couldn't decide whether to shove or not I think he'll fold out all of his 4s and any missed FD's he might have and call me with all of his K's and Ts and Flushes so am I right to check back here with my K becuase only a small part of his range are his Kx's below 8 I am beating? if he can't have AK in his range because he would 3bet it and he cant have K4 on KT because he would c/r the flop with them is this a +EV shove?

kook's picture
Imo if you...

Imo if you shove then you rep ten or K and you just explained that he folds out every hand that you beat. If you want more value then bet around 200-300 and sometimes you get him bluff with this which gives more value.

longjohn's picture
But The villain is passive

But The villain is passive, so I don't think a small bet size will induce a bluff very often but he may call me with a 4 if I bet that small?

kook's picture
He won't ..

He won't call shove anyways you just add some more value to this hand when you give him this option. If you give your opponent more options to make mistakes, then there is bigger possibility that they make them.

longjohn's picture
Yeah I do understand what you are saying

Yeah I do understand what you are saying and I think that will work against some players, but do you think that it is going to work against a passive player whos not bluffing much often enough to make it +EV or do you think it is better to check it back. The only reason I think that betting small here would be good against this particular villain is that he might call with a 4 do you think people will do that very often in this spot?

outs_on_the_moon's picture
I think a checkback is just

I think a checkback is just fine.If he's passive and the type of player that might check a flush or a Tx hand to you on the river than vbetting even becomes bad imo since the range of hands that call (or checkraise) a bet consist of more hand that beat you then that you have beat. So if villain has 50% or more handcombo's in his range that beat you than v-betting becomes unprofitable.Furthermore unless villain has a wide oop callingrange you might wanna discount weak Kx hands which makes his range that still wants to put money in the pot after your bet even more weighted towards hands that beat you.The option of betting real small to get thin value from 4x might be okay if: 1. villain is a real station and he's almost always gonna call you with 4x 2. his oop calling range is wide enough that it contains a wide variety of kx/4x hands that you still beat and that they outweigh the amount of combos of hands that beat yours (and ofcourse 3. your positively that villain is no way gonna check/raise bluf you);;;which makes me think that betting the river here is just not such a good option a lot of the time

Barewire's picture
Based on your description of

Based on your description of him and knowing that he can have quite a few combos of trips and flushes despite taking a passive line I think this is a pretty clear check, I'd probably shove AA and nothing worse.

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longjohn's picture
Thanks for the replies guys

Thanks for the replies guys