5 posts / 0 new
Last post
drabr's picture
Calling a shove w/ 2nd pair...

Villain is a top rated reg. He 3 bet a ton, 25% and raised a lot of my limps as well. Therefore, the plan was to limp call and see a flop. Correct? Or, would a 2.5x raise and a shove be be better if I'm getting 3 bet so often? On the flop, villain's auto shove seemed so bluffy on the this uber dry board. If he had a real hand, why would he over bet shove when this board misses each of us so often? Anyway, he berated my play in chat and sinice he's a winning player I'd like to see how bad my line is or isn't.

 

 

Table info:

Dealer, Posts small blind $25

Seat 1:Button ($1,765)

Posts big blind $50

Seat 2:BB ($1,235)

Dealt to Button

Preflop: (Pot: $75)

CALL Button, $25
RAISE BB, to $200
CALL Button, $150

Flop: (Pot: $400)


BET BB, $1,035 and is ALL-IN
CALL Button, $1,035

Turn: (Pot: $2,470)

River: (Pot: $2,470)

Showdown:

SHOWS BB

SHOWS Button

Button wins the pot of $2,470 with two pair, Sixes and Deuces

 

pokerslap's picture
my thought

i like reraising all in if you havent done it more than twice
although i would prefer to do that move with k9 or jq because a7 and up will be callling u
calling he isnt my first option because A6 is horrible post flop
but after he shoves the flop instant call because he obviously missed or he has a PP more likely he missed though.
get up, clean up, step up.

get up, clean up, step up.

RyPac13's picture
One nice aspect of this hand

One nice aspect of this hand is the stack sizes.  They favor a limp call bc that way a villain like this is cbetting 100% of flops and that means he puts in about 500 chips of his stack both PF and on the flop regardless of his hand.  A hi is plenty great to limp call here, hitting a flop isn't necessary with it vs this guy.

Pondus's picture
Limp/shove or Limp/call-shove

If we limp-call preflop in order to shove over his cbet on 100 % of the flops, we're for all practical purposes turning our hand into a stop 'n go, and we're making him fold all/most hands that we got beat while he will be calling with all/most hands that got us beat. We're basically helping him make the right decision (had the same discussion with Skates in a thread on the video-discussion forum). This is assuming he will cbet 100 % of the flops, and if he will not our strategy becomes even more devastating for us.
I doubt this strategy is +ev, and I'm almost certain that shoving over his raise pf is much better.
The fact that he doesn't play exactly like this only helps the argument that limp shoving preflop is better if the alternative is calling on the flop with A-high, as we were wrong about his cbet habits. If neither is our plan a raise pf is a better option.
This is all assuming he will raise our limps 50 % or more, if not it doesn't really pay to play the hand tricky and a raise pf is better. Also, if he's shoving 100 % of his range on the flop limp/calling pre to call flop is our best option, but even then it's close. In this particular hand we don't know exactly what his plan was, but I can't imagine he'd shove any two cards on any flop.
Cliffnotes:
Limp/shove: Winner
Limp/call-shove: In very special circumstances with exact read it's a close call.

RyPac13's picture
If you limp shove with this

If you limp shove with this hand here you might as well do it with 45s, you'll be dominated much less often.
 
My point was as played his limp call is not bad bc there isn't much behind on this flop.  We aren't just "folding everything ahead of us" here either, do you really think villain bets 400 into an 800 chip pot then folds for 475 more with AK here?  With bottom pair?  I don't think so.
Your point makes a lot more sense if we are deeper stacked, but you'd probably want to be minraising any deeper, not limping.
Another point to make is that you should have a plan before making a decision with a hand like this preflop, whether is limp/shove, raise/fold, raise/call, limp/call or whatever, you have to at least have an idea of what you want to do in order to make a decision.