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edwin's picture
sitngo wizard in comparison to nash for end game

Hellohave just sighned up and started watching some vids, i am new to HUSNG.just wondering, i notice in a lot of the vids the instructors are using NASH to determine their pushing ranges with effective stacks are less than approx 13BB. Why is NASH better to use than Sitandgo Wizard to determine push/call endgame decisions?sorry if it's a new be question, i am pretty new to poker theory.i did try use the search function, so please direct me to forum if question has already been answered.thanks

Barrin's picture
Hey EdwinThe difference lies

Hey EdwinThe difference lies in the details (as always :)). NASH is an equilibrium strategy and therefore 100% unexploitable. If you push according to NASH, all your opponent can do is call according to NASH. If he does not do that, this is -EV for him. Therefore NASH does calculate a PUSHING and a CALLING range.Sit 'n Go Wizard does work completely different. If you are useing Wizard, YOU have to give a specific range to your opponent. If you are 100% sure of his range, you might find a better strategy than NASH.Again, the deal with NASH is that it is UNEXPLOITABLE. However, this does not mean, that NASH is allways the strategy which is most +EV. For example, if you are 100% sure, that your opponent will call with AA only, any fold by NASH, while unexploitable, is the wrong way to go. You should simply push any 2.Useing NASH simply means, that you could be the worst HU player in the world and the best, still would not have any advantage over you. Over a sample size of, lets say 10000 HU SNGs, you would be up the same amount...or better spoken; you would just pay the rake and get nothing out of it.You also should be carefulle with according to the NASH Calling range. It is based on the NASH pushing range but is pretty useless if you have the read that your opponent does push KK+, AQs+ and AK when he is still 13BB deep. So, other than the pushing range, the calling range can hurt itself, if you are not carefull.

Hi.

RyPac13's picture
Just to add to Barrin's solid

Just to add to Barrin's solid post.I know for me at least, that I utilize Nash sort of as a reference/guide. It's very easy to look at the NASH chart, look at your opponent's tendency and say "OK, he's pushing a lot tigher than Nash SB, so I'm going to tighten up in the BB versus using Nash BB."It's also not a bad idea to start at Nash sb as far as your pushing ranges 8bb or less and opening up if you see an opponent that calls too tight.So I would say that most coaches probably aren't using Nash exactly (I hope not!) in most spots, but referencing it in a way that they are comfortable with, similar to what I outline above.Mersenneary is probably the strongest coach as far as knowing, understanding and explaining end game push or fold 0-15bb strategy situations, so if you want to look at follow up material I would start with his videos.

edwin's picture
thanks a lot for the replys

thanks a lot for the replys guys, makes things a lot clearer.So i am guessing both of you use NASH very frequently and wizard not so much?and yes Barrin i have read that most people are not using the NASH calling range simply because most are not pushing NASH calling range, specially when have more than 13BB. thanks for the reminder. yes i have watched all the beginner end game vids, which was a lot of help, but did not understand the difference in between NASH and sitngo wizard, hence the question.i will move onto some of the advanced end game vids and will play some matches using NASH pushing ranges for approx 8BB and less to get a feel for it. thank you both for the solid replys :)

RyPac13's picture
Oh, to clarify, sitngo wiz

Oh, to clarify, sitngo wiz will give you helpful and accurate information, it is definitely the type of tool you want to utilize outside of game to get a good feel for various situations against various opponents.

Barrin's picture
Intense training with the

Intense training with the Wizard will give allow you, to get a better understanding of ranges. You just need to keep in mind that the preset Ranges of the SNG Wizard are wrong in most cases. This forces you to adjust the range, which eventually, will give you a very good feeling for it.

Hi.

edwin's picture
ok thanks a lot guys just

ok thanks a lot guysjust another query: lets say when using sitngo wizard to analyze your push fold decisions, and in a perfect world you were able to determine your opponets ranges perfectly, would sitngo wiz then be a more accurate way of determining EV decisions than NASH?

Barrin's picture
Again: NASH is an

Again: NASH is an equilibrium. It is a perfect balance and therefore UNEXPLOITABLE. Lets imagine we two are playing a HU and we both are useing NASH. What is NASH is doing?NASH says: Barrin you are in the SB you PUSH according to NASH.NASH says: edwin you are in the BB you CALL according to NASH.NASH, does allways asume that both parties are playing according to NASH. If that is not a GIVEN, NASH is probably (while still unexploitable) not maximazing your EV. Wizard works differently. You give the INPUT. You say Wizard: Barrin will call 34% and Wizard tell you, if that is so, edwin, you are ahead if you push XX% and behind if you push ZZ%.You might wanna watch Ryans Endgame video (http://www.husng.com/content/rypac13-video-09-introduction-end-game) he also has the NASH-chart on the screen and explains when and why it is not always the way to go.Long story short: NASH is takeing it as a given that your opponent plays according to NASH also. Wizard is based on the input YOU GIVE to it.

Hi.

edwin's picture
ok i understand, thanks a lot

ok i understand, thanks a lot for the help :)