only 14 hands so far. raise 43% limped 43% first 3bet and he flats only 25% 1/4
maybe I´m a little bit scared, because he was OOP very tight so far and with 14bb I exposed a 3bet shove with any pp or Ax. If he would shove, I snap call here, but his nai 3bet isnt a good sign. What is the normal tendency of a nai 3bet with 14bb?
No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players
$6.85+$0.15
Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter
| SB | Hero | 580 | |
| BB | S.DZANAGOV | 420 |
Effective Stacks: 14bb
Blinds 15/30
Pre-Flop (45, 2 players)
Hero is SB
Hero raises to 60, S.DZANAGOV raises to 120, Hero calls 60
Flop (240, 2 players)
S.DZANAGOV goes all-in 300,
NAI 3b tend to be stronger.
Easy fold without read that villain is 3b a wide range at which point it becomes a 4b jam.
Openshove pre.
4bet shove AI.
Hi.
What NAI 3b range do we have enough FE vs that you can 4b jam A8s?
Vs the value part of a NAI 3b range you're about a 35-40% dog.
He needs to have a lot of 3b NAI bluffs (which most players don't @ 14BB) to make 4b jamming profitable.
What NAI 3bet range do you put him on?
From looking at this stats alone:
Open-raise: 43%
Open-Limp: 43%
3bet: 0%
Openfold: 75%
you can tell, that he is a huge fish. Therefore the chance that he 3bets him with a range that totally crushes our A8s is considerably small.
Hi.
He has folded to 75% of our opens and 3b 0%.
He limps a lot in position and only raises the top of his range.
This is the sort of fish that 4b jamming A8s vs is lolbad.
These guys are typically level 1 thinkers that play extremely overt ranges based on the raw strength of their hands.
His 3b NAI range will be comprised of:
- value [AA-TT,AxKx-AxTx,AxKy-AxTy,KxQx,KxQy]
- bluffs [ ? ]
Against his value range we have 35.5% equity.
The reason it is "standard" to raise call a 3b jam w A8s @ 14BB is because typically there will be a lot more dominated Ax and unsuited Ax which villain would be 3b jamming here. When this sort of player makes a NAI 3b to this size, he doesn't have all that sort of stuff we have good equity against to dilute the top of his range which we are crushed by.
That is, at 14BB, we raise call when we have (14-2) / (14(2) = 12 / 28 = 42.8% equity vs villain's 3b jamming range.
And typically a 3b jamming range would be something like = [AxKx-Ax2x,AxKy-Ax2y,KK,KxQx-KxTx,KxJy,KxTy,QxJx,QxTx,QxTy,JJ-22]
Which A8s has 50.1% equity vs so is a snap call vs a 3b jam.
In order to 4b jam here profitably, we need know villain has a 3b NAI bluffing range which gives us some fold equity when we 4b jam.
Otherwise we are just 4b jamming into a range which has us completely crushed (35.5% equity).
This is premised on the assumption that villain's do not make NAI 3b with holdings like [Ax9x-Ax2x,Ax9y-Ax2y,77-22], which I believe to be the case.
Open jamming is fine pre vs someone who you don't expect to expand their 3b jamming range as effective stacks decrease.
Barrin, can you please clarify your thought process (including the range of hands you would expect a "huge fish" to 3b NAI @ 14BB) as to why you think 4b jamming is such a clear decision vs this guy?
To me its a clear fold when a fishy (presumably value oriented) villain makes a NAI 3b to this size with a range that largely has us dominated. I think I could even resist flatting the NAI 3b being layed such good odds net of the reverse implied odds our hand suffers from postflop.
So, in short, for you, cdon, villain is:
- fish
- thinking level 1
- NAI 3b only [AA-TT,AxKx-AxTx,AxKy-AxTy,KxQx,KxQy]...in order to gain extra value by lureing hero into the pot
You are giving him credit to play a honest and only top-range that absolutely crushes us. You give him credit to make the difference between trying to lure someone into the pot with a range that dominates heroes range and yet, somehow, this honest playing, lureing us into pot, fish, does shove 7/8 of the pot on the flop on a 236ss board.
This action is why it is wired and why I do not give him credit for a top range like you do, but of a range that contains of much more drawing hands, lower pocket pairs and several Axs/Axo.
All right, you might wanna tell me that we should not consider the flop, because this information only comes after we have to make our decision. Fair enough; I highly doubt that the $7 super-duper fish does have a fix 3bet AI and a fix 3bet NAI range. I much rather see a fish call and stap with his AA like hands. Not giving him the reasoning to split his range, the only consideration that I am doing is to use the 3bet-range that hero put him on in OP and I have no problem shoving versus this range.
Hi.
The going read we have on villain is that he is weak tight.
The NAI 3b range of such a player will be a tight value range.
Not sure how you can put low Ax and drawing hands in his NAI 3b range.
You have not convinced me 4b jamming is the correct play.
true, normal I would openshove this hand, but villain was so passive and fold so many hands against my minraises I decided to mr this hand. I decided to call his 3bet because potodds. If I 4bet shove here, I see here nothing I would beat vs this guy.