Hi guys,
I posted this in the 2+2 forums also because at the $5 games i run into scenarios like this quite a lot and even though I have had some success with the line I take in this hand, I have had a lot of critcism also so I would like some more thoughts :)
I will quote my 2+2 thread;
I am confused about the play from the turn onwards, I am really not sure if I should have checked behind on the river or not, given no solid reads i guess i should have, but would like opinions.
Early in the game, 4-5 hands played, villian limps his buttons, calls all button raises so far, folded earlier to a 2 barrel, has not yet lead out on any flop.
I like to raise on this flop personally, a lead for half pot, i had a chip lead, i want to find out what it means, i think i can get a fold a decent amount of the time here too plus i have no showdown value.
The turn is really confusing for me, I am not sure if I should be raising this or not, I am definately not folding 20 chips into a pot of 500 but it felt like this bet was screaming for a raise which is the reason i flatted here.
The river i am again unsure about, if the turn was screaming for a raise he must have me beat, and the check (in my mind) suggests a monster or bottom pair/air, obviously I fired out 310 into 540 with a stack size of 1380 because I felt like I could outplay the guy later even if he calls but... I am really not sure if this was the correct play.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $5.00+$0.25 Tournament, 10/20 Blinds (2 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com
Hero (Button) (t1620)
SB (t1380)
Hero's M: 54.00
Preflop: Hero is Button with 3c, 8c
Hero bets t60, SB calls t40
Flop: (t120) As, 10h, 6c (2 players)
SB bets t60, Hero raises to t190, SB calls t130
Turn: (t500) Qs (2 players)
SB bets t20, Hero calls t20
River: (t540) 5h (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t310, 1 fold
Total pot: t540
Well, my feeling is that players like these are usually extremely bad, but often hard to play against because they can so easily get you on tilt. Their lines simply don't make any sense at all, but still they won't fold if they have any piece of the board and they're also not scard of putting a large portion of their stack into the pot with nothing but a hopeless bluff.
As much as I like the idea of playing back at them, IMO trying to "re-bluff" them is the wrong idea - these guys often have the IQ of a mosquito, so you also don't have to be very smart at outplaying them - in theory, you could just wait for a hand.
Well, I've lost so much money trying to make moves against these guys and never had an idea what to do before I came here and started to watch some videos.
Nowadays, I'd try to adjust immediately against them - the "standard" line of raising pre-flop and cbetting most flops doesn't work against them since they'll simply donk into you on a lot of boards, so you should minraise and limp more and also not play trash from the button unless they let you limp.
Post-flop, if you want to play back at their donk-bets, pick a hand with some equity, not complete air - just fold your air and continue with hands like flush- or straight-draws or two overcards to the board - hands which allow you to hit something big on a later street and take it to showdown. Worst thing that may happen to you with your 83o type of air is that you hit an eight and have no idea where you're at.
Regarding these annoying minbets, I'd just calll them and try to see a showdown cheaply to figure out what they're doing it with. Just don't build a huge pot with a very marginal hand or even a bluff against these idiots.
As played, you put 1/3rd of your stack into the pot with complete air - just forget all these 3-barrel-bluffs you may see in videos or on television, even at the $50's and $100's where I play there are so many idiots who are simply too stupid to understand any line you take and why exactly they should fold their king high. These bluffs become usefull if you played against a guy for a while and know how he plays and that he's capable of folding.
Jack
If I'm going to try to continue a bluff on this hand then I'm raising his turn min-bet. You aren't really representing anything after flat calling on the flop. These guys probably don't care about what you are representing, but I think that the majority of the time when you flat call his bet on the turn he is either going to lead out (and force you to fold) or check/call (and catch your bluff).
Oh yeah, definitely.
It's really strange that he just check/folds the river - I'd really have expected him to either lead-out something like 1/3 pot or check/call on the river.
Thanks for the responses guys, I have been really working on HU game recently and just today I was looking back over this hand and it really made me cringe how I played it. Needless to say I wont be running a play like this again in the near future.