No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter BBHero1560 BTNsoloveyartem1440 Effective Stacks: 72bb Blinds 10/20 Pre-Flop (30, 2 players) Hero is BB soloveyartem raises to 60, Hero calls 40 Flop (120, 2 players) Hero checks, soloveyartem checks Turn (120, 2 players) Hero bets 60, soloveyartem raises to 180, Hero folds Final Pot: 360 soloveyartem wins 360 ( won +120 ) Hero lost -120 I have no reads against the villain, this is one of the first hands I've played against him. Just wanted to check if this is always the correct fold against an unknown, am I right in thinking that this is not often going to be a bluff and will usually be Jx or better?
Consider leading out on these types of flops for value when you flop a hand like the one you did - you will get value out of draws or marginal pairs that will want to check the flop rather than make a cbet.
Would you do that aginst an unknown? if I had a read on him that he was passive and was not cbetting that much I would be leading here, but I think that most people would be betting this flop with most of their range. what do you think?
If you check, do you plan on check/calling or check/raising? I think leading out makes the hand play out much easier instead of having to check/raise and be faced with a 3bet...or check/call and play the hand passively on a wet board.
I would be planning on check calling although I think check rasing is good as well, if I check call then I'm keeping all of the air in his range which against most unknowns I think will normally be a lot, I think it will be more difficult to play on later streets but I don't necessarily think that that makes it less +EV.I see why your saying to lead becuase I can get a lot of value from worse hands and I am taking charge of the hand and it will likely play out easier for me, but the only thing that puts me off is that I will be folding out so much air, that I will be able to get value from from most unknowns. I'm really not sure.
Definitely would want to check raise versus check call if he had cbet.Check calling allows his over cards to play really cheap and doesn't charge weaker pairs nor draws.I think it's a much larger mistake to check call this deep with such a strong hand, you miss out on so much potential value from weaker hands and you can build a very large pot very fast against opponents that often call with plenty of weaker hands. If you had 95 or even 97 I could understand more, but with TPTK on a draw heavy board 72bb deep, charge those weaker hands!
RyPac13so are you saying without a read it would be better to check/raise then to lead on this flop?Thanks for the replies btw guys
I would be check raising this every time. So early on in the match people tend to be over aggressive in general, so he might not give you any credit which of course will be in your favour. Obv he's gonna have you beat here sometimes, but I much prefer check raising to leading or check calling. I get why leading could be good Fydor, but I agree with whats been said that so early in a match the avg player is going to C bet here, and I think you can get more value that way. When he doesnt C bet the flop, you obv have no idea what his check back flop range is so lead bet/folding the turn is fine I personally think. It may seem weak, but its just one of those things where your hands are pretty much tied. You either continue where you are far ahead or far behind, or you let it go (make a note of it) and develop more reads on your opponent. I would have no problem throwing it away on the turn as played knowing that later on I can use that to my advantage. Did you know if this guy was a good player or bad player? Did you see his stats beforehand? I ask because I would definitely fold vs a weak player. I might call against a good thinking player though.
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A check raise becomes better the more often the opponent cbets, a lead becomes better the less they cbet (particularly the less they cbet with weaker draws and weaker pairs). True readless I would personally check raise bc I think the board is probably cbet on avg a lot of the time, but if you have passive/check back reads, even minor ones, leading can be the best option.That's my approach to these situations.
happyham yeah he was a bad player, but this was one of the first few hands of the match so I had no reads against him at the time.thanks guys