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Charles Hawk's picture
Daniel 'mrGR33N13' Insults Phil Hellmuth Calling Him 'Cancer To His World'

Yesterday Pokernews wrote an article based on Dan Colman's post in twoplustwo where he criticized Phil Hellmuth:

"Its embarrassing that we have to share our profession with whores like this guy. After I win one drop, he immediately comes on stage to shake my hand in front of a camera and congratulate me. As if he's the gatekeeper to the poker world and welcoming me inside.

"It is truly pathetic that a 40 year old would behave the way he does at the table, not to mention how spineless he is, just willing to take any sponsorship regardless of the company's integrity. Hey, anything for a payday! Really makes me sad to think there's a chance some people may look up to this charlatan. People of his attitude and character are a cancer to this world."

I asked several regs if they agree with Dan's position:


Bryan 'PrimordialAA' Pellegrino: I mean I think it's aggro but sure, I don't think anybody who is a professional really looks up to Hellmuth. He's a TV character, good for fish/TV segments, but it doesn't mean he's great at poker, but I think the world needs both. People like Hellmuth grow the game by making new people interested in it and giving a "celebrity" quality that people can recognize. People like Dan grow the game by being one of the best and pushing the boundaries of what people thought was possible in terms of skill gap in HU SNG or live MTTs, and a lot of regs/pros look up to him. It's just different roles and I think both are needed for the game to stay as prosperous as it has.


Ryan 'Rypac13' Pachmayer: A lot of what Dan says rings true in my book. Hellmuth represented and allegedly was part of the original ownership group of Ultimate Bet and seemed to consistently look the other way as the site stole millions from players. People of Hellmuth's status in poker have the ability and power to change things (or at least make the public aware of the shadiness of poker sites like UB), but instead he cashed huge checks and acted like nothing was wrong. He essentially made millions off the theft of tens of thousands of players and that makes me lean more towards Colman's comments being correct. As far as Hellmuth's schtick, that is probably good for TV/relatively harmless. It's making money off the massive theft of players that doesn't sit well with me, and not taking any responsibility for being so closely associated with and profiting off that company.


roctill7: Sounded pretty harsh from Colman, but I love that guy. He may come up as an angry person, he probably is though in a sense, but can't blame a guy that stands up for his points. I don't think Colman is a bad guy, he may do statements and actions that are not understandable to many, but I think it's a way he expresses his feelings and point of view, and I like that. Is he a douche to make such statements? I don't think so, I think the opposite, love how he tries to bring awareness to the world about scummy things. I have to agree with Colman and his statement. I think what a lot of people are missing out here is how scummy the company Hellmuth worked for as a face was. So many got scammed by 10's if not 100's of millions and so many got their bankroll taken. Did Hellmuth know about anything that was going on in that company? Maybe he did, maybe he did not, we can probably just speculate. But again Dan is just trying to use his powers in media to bring awareness about scummy parts of the world that surrounds us.


emotionx: I think he's very spot on with some of the things he said about him. However it can't be denied that Phil indeed has attracted a ton of players to the game, which can be only good for poker. Sadly the best poker guys aren't usually promoting the game as much as people with low profile like Phil Hellmuth have. Sarcastically enough Dan Colman comes to my head as the perfect poker ambassador but he doesn't seem interested in that, so maybe his words were a little out of line considering this situation.


adamc1988: In what context was this written? Have they had some beef in the past? I don't think there's any need for Colman to say that, unless he's just wanting a reaction. No denying Hellmuth's an annoying character, but Colman doesn't come across too well himself...I don't see what he gets out of such a statement, if anything he just comes across brash.


Dan "Andrex Puppy" Heskett: I think Phil knows and understands better then almost anyone else that, in the modern era, getting TV time and making news in poker is a good thing. I can't comment on his sponsorship, as I don't know the details, but I think most poker players, when offered a lucrative sponsorship deal, wouldn't do that much background checking on the companies.

I really belive that Phil makes poker a lot more entertaining for the casual watcher of poker. Berating the players is childish, but draws people in and makes it more fun. When I first started out in poker, I watched as many vids as I could, and then once I found Hellmuth's vids, I watched mostly them for a while!

I got to meet Phil in London last year as I sold my ticket for the UKIPT heads up event to him. It was really cool to meet a guy that I had been following and watching vids of for all those years. I know everyone says that he's the nicest guy away from the tables, and to be honest my experience was no different. He even let me take 10% of his action for cost price which he offered just to be nice, as he knew I was disappointed about not playing and wanted to give me a sweat!

Also I'd like to point out as a professional it's rare I go a whole day and don't get called an idiot by someone. Why just because he's a pro should we hold him to differant standards?


Dipl.Komp.'s picture
It is truly pathetic that a

It is truly pathetic that a 40 year old would behave the way he does at the table

 

 

yep. just as pathetic as a 23yo millionaire who feels he needs to trash talk and insult fish into rematches. at least hellmuth has the guts to insult people while looking them in the eye whereas colman so far has only proven to talk big in the privacy of his home when nobody is watching or having the chance of immediate rebuttal.

 

 

colman again proves the latin proverb "si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses"* to be true

 

 

* if you had kept silent, you would have remained a philosopher

maxv2's picture
So...

This is great, more people need to be called out for representing and accepting money from companies that mislead, steal and take advantage of people within the poker community.  It's pathetic to think how many people have done this and feel hardly any sense of remorse.  I wish there were more people like Coleman representing poker. 

Dipl.Komp.'s picture
in principle i actually agree

in principle i actually agree with him, but the problem with his post again is that he acts as if he still were a small stakes grinder, as if he still were "one of us" and as if he still were able to randomly post rants about other players on public fora. his post does in no way live up to the standard he set as a player. he is far from and will never reach the intellectual caliber of phil galfond, who, if he feels he has to speak his mind, does so in a well thought through and well written essay, whereas colman is just an angry little boy who acts as if hellmuth has taken away his candy. why would he even bother to write about hellmuth congratulating him months after the fact? noone cares about that. let the public decide how that gesture comes across, but damn it colman, keep your neurosis to yourself!

eddiemedusa's picture
1. Look who is talking about

1. Look who is talking about beeing a douche. Just lol.

2. So Phil is a douche for representing a company that stole money from pokerplayers.

Then i guess a few more players should be hated. Phil Ivey, Durrrrrr, Patrik Antonius, etc etc etc... Come on. Its not Phils fault.

I do agree that Phil can act horrible, but Phil is more important to poker then Dan seems to understand.

Dan himself have come out as the worst person ever as soon as he choose to say anything in public. He wait and wait and wait until he has something stupid and ignorant to say.

Give Phil some love and Dan some lessons in life EV.

3onthego's picture
Perhaps the reason it was

...

RyPac13's picture
The difference between

The difference between players like Antonius and Helmuth is that the former actually stepped away once they learned of issues (and people like Durrr spoke up about it and offered money at the time to victims).

Helmuth stayed silent and collected checks for years.

Of course, many call Ivey and Durrrr shady for other reasons, but when talking specifically about representing poker rooms and what constitutes as wrong and shady, I'm not sure how one can really consider Helmuth OK for what he did with Ultimate Bet, unless the person does not really understand what happened at Ultimate Bet.

The documentary Ultimate Beat is an excellent one for this topic.

eddiemedusa's picture
Yeah. I agree fully to this.

Yeah. I agree fully to this. But i still feel like Phil is getting a bit more shit for that situation then many other pokerplayers get for simular situations.

And to me it seems that Greenie only opens his mouth in public as soon as he can say smth mean.

This dude have made more money from poker then most humans in history have, and yet he is rude to both pros and fish almost every day at the tables.

Imo he has NO right to say anything bad about other players.

When Daniel Negranue for example say smth not so nice about another pokerplayer i listen and think if what he say has a meaning.

When Greenie do it i just get pissed off.

Same goes true for mr Helmuth. He has no right to speak bad about other players until he can behave himself if that makes sense.

Edit: Also i did not mean to Defend Phil for what he did in the UB scandal. That was wrong, and he should not be loved for that. But i stand by that i think he is getting more shit for what he did then many other big names get for doing way worse stuff.

 

 

 

serge's picture
Updated 16 November: Added

Updated 16 November: Added Dan "Andrex Puppy" Heskett's comments to the posting.