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Ducks's picture
flopping the nuts--how to extract the most

No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players

Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter

BB Hero 460  
BTN Sunny5500 540  

aaaah-what a flop. What now? Slowplay allowed? Betting the flop may fold out a lot of value. Betting the turn to get value ok? Betsize ok? Same question on river. As played I`m two times lucky in the hand because of he's hitting his gutshot.

 

 

Effective Stacks: 23bb

Blinds 10/20

Pre-Flop (30, 2 players)

Hero is BB

hTh8

Sunny5500 raises to 40, Hero calls 20

Flop (80, 2 players)

cTsTd8

Hero checks, Sunny5500 checks

Turn (80, 2 players)

h5

Hero bets 60, Sunny5500 calls 60

River (200, 2 players)

h9

Hero bets 140, Sunny5500 goes all-in 440, Hero calls 220

Final Pot: 920

Hero shows

hTh8

Sunny5500 shows

h7d6

Hero wins 920 ( won +460 )

Sunny5500 lost -380

cdon3822's picture
1. These spots come up so

1. These spots come up so rarely that they don't make much difference to your earnings over time
2. Unless your opponent is a complete spewtard he's not likely to randomly start shovelling money in on the turn when you check back the flop (which is why it's generally wrong to slowplay)
3. Not cbetting paired boards looks suspicious to a thinking player => but in this case you might get credit for checking back Ax or Kx because you have some show down value and middling cards do tend to connect with OOP flatting ranges in single raised pots. That said, if he stabs the turn and you suddenly wake up looking to stack off, we are back in case 2 above => he's not going to randomly start bluffing his stack off in the face of what looks exactly what it is (a slow played monster) without a 2nd best hand.
 
So how do we maximised value? 
a) If he has a 2nd best hand we get the money regardless => irrelvant to marginal expectation
b) If he has nothing, we likely don't get the money if we slow play and he has half a brain => not optimal in my opinion as discussed above
 
How do we get credit for having bluffs in our range?
=> we bet the flop, but make it a size that we might bluff with
 
On paired boards, often people cbet 30 into 80 or even min bet to take down the pot in position on a board where often no one has a piece. 
In this spot, our opponent actually often has a piece in the form of a gutshot, OESD, 2 overcards etc. 
This is a spot where I think the best way to keep bluffs in your range is to underbet the flop. 
=> think about how he would feel if he was holding a gutshot + 2 overs (pretty typical for a OOP flatting range on this board)
=> he probably thinks he can c/r jam with a lot of fold equity if he's thinking at all about what this bet sizing would normally mean from the population in this spot
 
Or what if he has something like Kx => we still get some value from him floating which he's not going to put in on the turn unimproved anyway. 
 
I think an inducing bet here is particularly powerful, especically if we have an image of constantly attacking when checked to in position. 
You'll be surprised how often you get played back at compared to the times you check it back and no further money goes in as a bluff beyond the occassional turn stab.
 
I think this is a nice spot to use psychology to really manipulate your opponent's actions. 
The marginal expectation gained is somewhat irrelevant though because when you have such a monopolistic hold on the flop, sadly the times your opponent makes a second best hand which can pay you off is significantly reduced. This is true of many situations in poker => the most profitable spots are often at the margin because this is where your opponents will make more mistakes more frequently. Except against the biggest spewtards, most players will not start shovelling money with zero equity. 

Ducks's picture
this is coaching for free.

this is coaching for free. Thank you very much. :)

cdon3822's picture
Lol. I answered your question

Lol.
I answered your question under the premise you were on the button deciding whether to cbet or not. 
 
OOP I think you played the hand fine :)