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jackoneill's picture
Playing against minbetting and mindonking loose-passives @ 150 bb

Hi, I'm currently playing the $30's on Absolute and I'm recently having a lot of problems against loose-passive idiots who constantly minraise or mindonk into me - most of these players have negative ROI's, but I often feel like I have no chance of beating them.

They constantly minraise 100% of their buttons, don't fold to any 3bets and - of course - also don't fold to any of my button opens. At the flop, they either minraise my continuation bet or mindonk into me, call any raises and then insta-mindonk again at the turn.

In theory, I should have a huge edge over these guys because they constantly put in a lot of money with extremely weak holdings, but somehow I always end up putting my money in when behind.

I think my biggest problem is with medium strength hands like weaker two pairs - while I can easily fold top pair against these guys, I'm always thinking that I should be able to get some value from a hand as strong as two pair - but I mostly end up putting my money in when behind.

The situation is mostly this: I raise pre-flop and hit top and bottom pair, they mindonk into me, I make a pot-sized raise, fish snapcalls and insta mindonks again at the turn. Now I can choose between either flatcalling to play pot control - giving him a cheap river card to hit his draw - or turning my hand into a bluff and raising him. If I choose to raise, three things may happen: either he folds out all his air, or he 3bet-shoves over me - in which case I can immediately muck my two pair because I'm always beat against a higher two pair or a set - or he calls and either donk-shoves, or check-shoeves or check-folds the river, letting me quess whether I'm still good or not.

Is bluffing with air and slowplaying / trapping with good hands the only way of beating these guys ?

So often, I have something like 98 on a 982 board, turn is a king and they win my stack with K2.

Or I have QQ on a Q29 rainbow board, turn is a 3, river a 4 - I'm already scared of valuebetting here when checked to me since I'm basically turning my hand into a bluff - either they fold, or check/shove with exactly A5.

Maybe playing 150 bb deep in the early blind levels on Absolute isn't the right thing for me ? I already have some experience with cashgame heads-up and also played the $50's and $100 for a while, but then I had to cash out a large part of my roll just at the time when I hit a really bad down, so I'm now trying to grind up again from the micros. So in theory, I should have both a higher edge and lower variance @ 150 bb, compared to the 50 bb turbo's for instance - but I feel like I'm doing something wrong.

Any help would be greatly appreciated,
Jack

cymonguk's picture
wow

I am finding this at the moment too at lower levels!
people who seem to be willing to call down with bottom pair and high kicker and hit the high kicker on the turn/river for two pair, or call any raise with an inside straight draw, i lost 7BB against these players the last day or so.

jackoneill's picture
Yeah, it's really sick to

Yeah, it's really sick to play against these guys when they're running hot.
One of the sickest things is when it puts you into this guessing game at the river, where your hand is way ahead of the donkey's range, but you're scared of valuebetting it again because you're afraid that he just sucked out on you again and you don't wanna look like an idiot if you lose yet another buy-in putting your chips in while behind.
Sometimes this even let me do some really tilty things, like when he check/minraised me the 5th time in a row on the river - after just losing 4 buy-ins to him where he used exactly the same like with a rivered nuts - and I think "hey, he can't have sucked out on me again, my hand is good", and talk myself into shoving over it with my two pair.
Sometimes I even think "ok, the only hand which beats me is runner runner gutshot, and he just hit that 5 times in a row, so he can't have it now" and shove - or I give these guys way too much credit, thinking like "ok, he just used this like 5 times in a row with the absolute nuts and took 5 buy-ins off me, he can't really assume that I'll ever ever call him again if he uses that line again, this must be a bluff".
But I forget that donkey doesn't have a brain and thus can't think that far - he only sees his two cards, realizes that check/minraising the river worked 5 times for him, so he does it a 6th time with the nuts.
It just sucks so badly if you see that a guy is playing like a complete idiot and that he's also taking very transparent lines - but you can't do anything about it because he doesn't fold to any bets whatsoever and is getting cards and hitting flops like a young god.
Jack


cymonguk's picture
Only Way

I managed to start beating this last night, even when running bad.
 
I have found that these players, as you say, literally cannot see the board or guess my range.
 
So when the flop is KQ5 and they hit with A5, they are going to call me down with that 5.
 
The only things that work:
1) Keep the pots small
2) Only raise small IP
3) only call with good flop hands pre oop (i.e 9t, tj,78s) or premiums
4) If you radar tells you they could have hit a middle pair/flush/straight on the river and they are min-bet/ck-raise, they probably have a better hand.
 
I am not sure what is the best approach to betting them