Gonna be doing a sick reviewing session today, and hopefully posting a lot of hands/questions. Since I've posted so ridiculously few hands in the months I've been here I feel it's ok to post a gazillion ones today that I'm putting in serious reviewing work, but definately feel free to answer to them in turns over some time.btw Stars is so rigged :( Between the 3 of us in the house (valuelol, jts and me) we're a combined 30K below EV last 2 days.
No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$196.66+$3.34 Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBHero500 BBSmallDark500 Effective Stacks: 25bb Blinds 10/20 Pre-Flop (30, 2 players)Hero is SBHero raises to 40, SmallDark calls 20 Flop (80, 2 players) SmallDark checks, Hero bets 40, SmallDark calls 40 Turn (160, 2 players) SmallDark checks, Hero checksFirst hand of the game, completely readless. What do you think is best in a board like this, try to check it down for like the 5-10% we're good at showdown, or turn our pair into a bluff right from the turn and go for 3 barrels, since it's such a good barreling board?I feel he has a T and ends up folding it enough of the time, compared to the Kx (maybe)/Ax/QJ etc he stacks us with, that barreling can be more profitable than just taking our 10% equity, but not sure. River (160, 2 players) SmallDark bets 160, Hero folds Final Pot: 320 SmallDark wins 320 ( won +80 ) Hero lost -80Obv fold when he pots river, but if he'd checked it, do you like bluffing and what size if so? Do you feel a check is enough info being readless otherwise to cap his range at worse than a straight? in which case it would be a pretty good overbetting situation right? Tell me if this reasoning sounds correct:- If I'm confident his range is capped, I should overbet flushes, straights and bluffs. Would you just shove all of those as shown optimal in your article or choose a smaller overbet size.- If I'm not sure he never checks straights+ on river, it still could be a decent spot to bluff, but then probably It'd be best to bet 100ish into 160 and fold to raise.
No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$196.66+$3.34 Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter BBHero484 SBkleopl516 Effective Stacks: 12bb Blinds 20/40 Pre-Flop (60, 2 players)Hero is BBkleopl raises to 80, Hero calls 40 Flop (160, 2 players) Hero checks, kleopl bets 80, Hero folds Final Pot: 240 kleopl wins 240 ( won +80 ) Hero lost -80Villain is minraising a pretty low % <15bbs (no hud but between 30-50% is my guess), so I think too much of it is inducing for me to shove TJo preflop, but I still think I can flat it. He's also openshoved a couple of times so I'm assuming some pocket pairs / Ax are out of his range.On this flop, would you say there's enough stuff that he was inducing with pre but might now fold to justify a check-shove?
No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$196.66+$3.34 Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter BBzekindman460 SBHero540 Effective Stacks: 23bb Blinds 10/20 Pre-Flop (30, 2 players)Hero is SBHero raises to 40, zekindman calls 20 Flop (80, 2 players) zekindman checks, Hero bets 40, zekindman raises to 100, Hero...Feeling a bit unsure with this kind of situation, and it's a common one. Second pair, kind of drawy flop, you get check-raised, don't think it's good enough to get it in...Obviously you have to at least call, for 2 pair odds if nothing else.- In what kind of board / stack size / villain tendencies combination would you 3 bet shove instead?- When you flat what's your plan for the turn when you don't hit 2 pair+? The drawy flop part is what gives me trouble, since a lot of villains will bet their draws again on turns that don't complete them. So on turn you'll have about 11% equity vs better pairs and around 80% vs decent draws with like an overcard... on a flop like in the example I'd think there's going to be substancially more 7x+ than draws in his range and so turn should be a fold as standard even with pot odds at that point? But in other boards % of draws can be a lot higher so it'd be a call. I'm assuming we don't have more specific reads about villain tendencies ofc. Is my approach correct, am I missing factors?
I would barrell off with the 85, but it's close.Definitely a decent overbetting spot once he checks, because he's not going to check very many hands to you on the river with this line.Overbetting with value hands is really something to do in equilibrium as part of a balanced strategy. I think against most, it's best to bet smaller with your made hands and make sure to get paid because they'll just shrug and fold against big bets. But that's a feel thing and I'm not sure at all if that's true, which should be clear because I'm not sure about arguing for an overbet with air :)
People who have a low opening % tend to have a pretty low c-bet % on this type of board. I would usually bet turn if flop checked behind and contest that way.
OK, J6. Things that make it more likely to be a shove...1) High c/r percentage2) Not continuing often on turns as a bluff3) Will continue for value even on overcard turns with 7x.And the reverse is true for things that make it more likely to be a flat. In general, I flat, because I don't think most people have high enough of a c/r frequency.
I usually fold turn to further aggression with J6, but some room for play on different turn cards/sizings/timing/soulreads. ace, seven, king and queen are all cards where a big turn bet doesn't make a ton of sense, so it's always tempting...
You mentioned in your HH review that I might be limping a little too often at 20-25bbs without provocation for it. A little shorter, at 15ish bbs, I remember you said once during a live sweat that some hands of the T8s type you believe have the best expectation limping, even vs someone who doesn't 3bet too much.So for instance, a hand like QT you would never limp vs an opponent that doesn't force you to do so by 3betting a lot, and vs someone who 3bet-shoves a ton, you might limp it >15bbs and mr-call it below, correct? Then a hand like 89s you would limp redless at 15bbs? but still raise it at 25?Could you talk a little about where the limits are in terms of stack sizes and hand types for limping vs minraising vs someone who doesn't 3bet much, or someone who 3bets a healthy % but nothing crazy?
On a kind of similar topic: I'm not sure if this is a difference between the stars/FT population, something players have been evolving towards, or if it's just variance making me encounter this more, but anyways: I'm finding that the general population is shoving a lot on BB vs a SB limp, rather than making a 3x raise, even up to like 20bbs deep.I'm not talking about people just shoving everytime you limp obv, but rather something like: First time you limp, at 22bbs, he snap-shoves. Then mostly checks behind vs limps, 3xes some and shoves some, and again at 15bbs and below he starts shoving fairly aggressively on most limps. I'm finding this kind of things a lot.i'd like to talk a bit about adjustments vs this, in 2 cases: 1) guy 3bet-shoves aggressively and also shoves a lot vs limps. 2) Guy doesn't 3bet a lot but shoves a ton vs limps.Don't feel like typing long thoughts right now, but maybe you can chime in and then we discuss it. Basically, vs case 1 obvious stuff is it's mandatory to simply openfold more hands unless you can openshove them profitably at whatever stack size you're at, and you have to call jams lighter. But going from there, how would you distribute good hands between limp-calling and mr-calling? Or is there no reason to limp vs this guy? Intuition tells me there's got to be some edge to be gained by mixing ranges but not sure. In case 2, what kind of stuff would you start limping to trap, and what would you still raise? Would the trash in your opening range change in any way?
85 hand:i think the avg ST player just doesn't have enough AX in their range at any <25 stacksize for us to not barrel off here. it's hard to even come up with a hand that you can get to showdown and beat, so you essentially have air. you rep the board well, your perceived range is strong, villains perceived range is a weak KX and worse (QJ sometimes tho obv). i like barreling off here a lot here. it's close though, and when we get called down by A8/A9 type hands i think we have to reduce our bluff frequency on boards like this of course.
JT:at slightly deeper stacks (20ish+), I really like donking this flop with this type hand (backdoor draw + overs). strong end of villains range will play fast vs a donkbet, so flatting range is pretty weak. much better option than a c/r or floating typically.at these stacks, a little less interesting. flat pre is fine vs open %. vs a SUPER fit or fold player, I think you could donk like 45% of the pot on the flop and get folds from total air, but wont work vs many...just too many hand combos he can continue with and awkward stack sizes for us to barrel turn/river. i hate chk/shoving bc I think people cbet this board with too tight of a range, esp at this stack size. don't see anything you can do other than c/f.
J6 hand:flat/reevaluate turn. if his c/r% continues to be very high, polarize your cbet range between hands that can continue vs a c/r and total air. check back bluffcatchers. most people play terribly on turns after chk/chk flops anyways.
You mentioned in your HH review that I might be limping a little too often at 20-25bbs without provocation for it. A little shorter, at 15ish bbs, I remember you said once during a live sweat that some hands of the T8s type you believe have the best expectation limping, even vs someone who doesn't 3bet too much.So for instance, a hand like QT you would never limp vs an opponent that doesn't force you to do so by 3betting a lot, and vs someone who 3bet-shoves a ton, you might limp it >15bbs and mr-call it below, correct? Then a hand like 89s you would limp redless at 15bbs? but still raise it at 25?Could you talk a little about where the limits are in terms of stack sizes and hand types for limping vs minraising vs someone who doesn't 3bet much, or someone who 3bets a healthy % but nothing crazy?
I like your questions nico, and i would answers to when to go for limp call and when to go for mr call too.think that depends a lot on attacking frequencies i try to find some answers to your questions above.. whether to limp or minraise a hand which you want to play depends imo on only few aspects: foldequity, playability,reaction of opponent (3betting range and calling range), postflop play of opponent, how many hands we dominate if we get called..some more aspects hard to list them all (i am lolbad) okay anyways, 89o 15BB, imagine the case someone is 3bet jamming enough and calling good playable hands and not 3betting nominal too much : so we dont haveA: enough foldequityB : we dont dominate enough hands that can call us and not 3bet.(only 87s,86s,85s,96s,95s and only if we are lucky and t ) hey dont 3bet jam these). a side argument is that we dont want to fold out hands we dominate with QT instead we get way more calls from dominated hands at smaller stacksizes.so it seems like there is no need in pumping the pot pre. am i right? at 25BB we have more room to represent a bigger hand, we can use information IP and barrel people off 3rd pair type stuff, not at 15 BB where flop is often cbet jam.and speculative hands like have more value when stacksizes are deeper, more ahand like 89s is nuts at 100BB but only ok good at 15 where absolut hand strength matters more. and another point: if we limp we dont need that many limp call a jam holdings to cover the weaker limp fold jam holdings as with a minraise. A hand like QT is fine to mr call below 15BB and it covers hands which minraise fold? C: a negative point is: we lose kind of initiative although not too much, because one can mix strong hands in limping and people know that.Witha hand like QT we will often flop if not a pair, two overs to the capped range of our oppponent few Kxs and no Axs. if we then get a backdoor flush draw(my no1 draw) and a gutshot or whatever we can easily cbet call at 15BB without beeing too worried.ok i tried it but my thoughts getting confused now, i stop here for someone else to do it better. ok hopefully i found some aspects .. gl okay i edited some thought and hopefully now everybody reading this is confused :)I did that on purpose, soon nobody will know what to do and will level themselves and i reach final stage of my final plan to play abc straightforward game and take over all lobbies from 50-1000$ ;)
fml legit jealous
Gonna be doing a sick reviewing session today, and hopefully posting a lot of hands/questions. Since I've posted so ridiculously few hands in the months I've been here I feel it's ok to post a gazillion ones today that I'm putting in serious reviewing work, but definately feel free to answer to them in turns over some time.btw Stars is so rigged :( Between the 3 of us in the house (valuelol, jts and me) we're a combined 30K below EV last 2 days.
No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$196.66+$3.34 Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBHero500 BBSmallDark500 Effective Stacks: 25bb Blinds 10/20 Pre-Flop (30, 2 players) Hero is SB Hero raises to 40, SmallDark calls 20 Flop (80, 2 players) SmallDark checks, Hero bets 40, SmallDark calls 40 Turn (160, 2 players) SmallDark checks, Hero checksFirst hand of the game, completely readless. What do you think is best in a board like this, try to check it down for like the 5-10% we're good at showdown, or turn our pair into a bluff right from the turn and go for 3 barrels, since it's such a good barreling board?I feel he has a T and ends up folding it enough of the time, compared to the Kx (maybe)/Ax/QJ etc he stacks us with, that barreling can be more profitable than just taking our 10% equity, but not sure. River (160, 2 players) SmallDark bets 160, Hero folds Final Pot: 320 SmallDark wins 320 ( won +80 ) Hero lost -80Obv fold when he pots river, but if he'd checked it, do you like bluffing and what size if so? Do you feel a check is enough info being readless otherwise to cap his range at worse than a straight? in which case it would be a pretty good overbetting situation right? Tell me if this reasoning sounds correct:- If I'm confident his range is capped, I should overbet flushes, straights and bluffs. Would you just shove all of those as shown optimal in your article or choose a smaller overbet size.- If I'm not sure he never checks straights+ on river, it still could be a decent spot to bluff, but then probably It'd be best to bet 100ish into 160 and fold to raise.
No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$196.66+$3.34 Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter BBHero484 SBkleopl516 Effective Stacks: 12bb Blinds 20/40 Pre-Flop (60, 2 players) Hero is BB kleopl raises to 80, Hero calls 40 Flop (160, 2 players) Hero checks, kleopl bets 80, Hero folds Final Pot: 240 kleopl wins 240 ( won +80 ) Hero lost -80Villain is minraising a pretty low % <15bbs (no hud but between 30-50% is my guess), so I think too much of it is inducing for me to shove TJo preflop, but I still think I can flat it. He's also openshoved a couple of times so I'm assuming some pocket pairs / Ax are out of his range.On this flop, would you say there's enough stuff that he was inducing with pre but might now fold to justify a check-shove?
No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$196.66+$3.34 Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter BBzekindman460 SBHero540 Effective Stacks: 23bb Blinds 10/20 Pre-Flop (30, 2 players) Hero is SB Hero raises to 40, zekindman calls 20 Flop (80, 2 players) zekindman checks, Hero bets 40, zekindman raises to 100, Hero...Feeling a bit unsure with this kind of situation, and it's a common one. Second pair, kind of drawy flop, you get check-raised, don't think it's good enough to get it in...Obviously you have to at least call, for 2 pair odds if nothing else.- In what kind of board / stack size / villain tendencies combination would you 3 bet shove instead?- When you flat what's your plan for the turn when you don't hit 2 pair+? The drawy flop part is what gives me trouble, since a lot of villains will bet their draws again on turns that don't complete them. So on turn you'll have about 11% equity vs better pairs and around 80% vs decent draws with like an overcard... on a flop like in the example I'd think there's going to be substancially more 7x+ than draws in his range and so turn should be a fold as standard even with pot odds at that point? But in other boards % of draws can be a lot higher so it'd be a call. I'm assuming we don't have more specific reads about villain tendencies ofc. Is my approach correct, am I missing factors?
I would barrell off with the 85, but it's close.Definitely a decent overbetting spot once he checks, because he's not going to check very many hands to you on the river with this line.Overbetting with value hands is really something to do in equilibrium as part of a balanced strategy. I think against most, it's best to bet smaller with your made hands and make sure to get paid because they'll just shrug and fold against big bets. But that's a feel thing and I'm not sure at all if that's true, which should be clear because I'm not sure about arguing for an overbet with air :)
People who have a low opening % tend to have a pretty low c-bet % on this type of board. I would usually bet turn if flop checked behind and contest that way.
OK, J6. Things that make it more likely to be a shove...1) High c/r percentage2) Not continuing often on turns as a bluff3) Will continue for value even on overcard turns with 7x.And the reverse is true for things that make it more likely to be a flat. In general, I flat, because I don't think most people have high enough of a c/r frequency.
I usually fold turn to further aggression with J6, but some room for play on different turn cards/sizings/timing/soulreads. ace, seven, king and queen are all cards where a big turn bet doesn't make a ton of sense, so it's always tempting...
You mentioned in your HH review that I might be limping a little too often at 20-25bbs without provocation for it. A little shorter, at 15ish bbs, I remember you said once during a live sweat that some hands of the T8s type you believe have the best expectation limping, even vs someone who doesn't 3bet too much.So for instance, a hand like QT you would never limp vs an opponent that doesn't force you to do so by 3betting a lot, and vs someone who 3bet-shoves a ton, you might limp it >15bbs and mr-call it below, correct? Then a hand like 89s you would limp redless at 15bbs? but still raise it at 25?Could you talk a little about where the limits are in terms of stack sizes and hand types for limping vs minraising vs someone who doesn't 3bet much, or someone who 3bets a healthy % but nothing crazy?
On a kind of similar topic: I'm not sure if this is a difference between the stars/FT population, something players have been evolving towards, or if it's just variance making me encounter this more, but anyways: I'm finding that the general population is shoving a lot on BB vs a SB limp, rather than making a 3x raise, even up to like 20bbs deep.I'm not talking about people just shoving everytime you limp obv, but rather something like: First time you limp, at 22bbs, he snap-shoves. Then mostly checks behind vs limps, 3xes some and shoves some, and again at 15bbs and below he starts shoving fairly aggressively on most limps. I'm finding this kind of things a lot.i'd like to talk a bit about adjustments vs this, in 2 cases: 1) guy 3bet-shoves aggressively and also shoves a lot vs limps. 2) Guy doesn't 3bet a lot but shoves a ton vs limps.Don't feel like typing long thoughts right now, but maybe you can chime in and then we discuss it. Basically, vs case 1 obvious stuff is it's mandatory to simply openfold more hands unless you can openshove them profitably at whatever stack size you're at, and you have to call jams lighter. But going from there, how would you distribute good hands between limp-calling and mr-calling? Or is there no reason to limp vs this guy? Intuition tells me there's got to be some edge to be gained by mixing ranges but not sure. In case 2, what kind of stuff would you start limping to trap, and what would you still raise? Would the trash in your opening range change in any way?
Another topic I want to discuss is adjusting vs tiny cbet sizes, don't feel like getting into it now but just writing it to remind myself.
85 hand:i think the avg ST player just doesn't have enough AX in their range at any <25 stacksize for us to not barrel off here. it's hard to even come up with a hand that you can get to showdown and beat, so you essentially have air. you rep the board well, your perceived range is strong, villains perceived range is a weak KX and worse (QJ sometimes tho obv). i like barreling off here a lot here. it's close though, and when we get called down by A8/A9 type hands i think we have to reduce our bluff frequency on boards like this of course.
JT:at slightly deeper stacks (20ish+), I really like donking this flop with this type hand (backdoor draw + overs). strong end of villains range will play fast vs a donkbet, so flatting range is pretty weak. much better option than a c/r or floating typically.at these stacks, a little less interesting. flat pre is fine vs open %. vs a SUPER fit or fold player, I think you could donk like 45% of the pot on the flop and get folds from total air, but wont work vs many...just too many hand combos he can continue with and awkward stack sizes for us to barrel turn/river. i hate chk/shoving bc I think people cbet this board with too tight of a range, esp at this stack size. don't see anything you can do other than c/f.
J6 hand:flat/reevaluate turn. if his c/r% continues to be very high, polarize your cbet range between hands that can continue vs a c/r and total air. check back bluffcatchers. most people play terribly on turns after chk/chk flops anyways.
I like your questions nico, and i would answers to when to go for limp call and when to go for mr call too.think that depends a lot on attacking frequencies i try to find some answers to your questions above.. whether to limp or minraise a hand which you want to play depends imo on only few aspects: foldequity, playability,reaction of opponent (3betting range and calling range), postflop play of opponent, how many hands we dominate if we get called..some more aspects hard to list them all (i am lolbad) okay anyways, 89o 15BB, imagine the case someone is 3bet jamming enough and calling good playable hands and not 3betting nominal too much : so we dont haveA: enough foldequityB : we dont dominate enough hands that can call us and not 3bet.(only 87s,86s,85s,96s,95s and only if we are lucky and t ) hey dont 3bet jam these). a side argument is that we dont want to fold out hands we dominate with QT instead we get way more calls from dominated hands at smaller stacksizes.so it seems like there is no need in pumping the pot pre. am i right? at 25BB we have more room to represent a bigger hand, we can use information IP and barrel people off 3rd pair type stuff, not at 15 BB where flop is often cbet jam.and speculative hands like have more value when stacksizes are deeper, more ahand like 89s is nuts at 100BB but only ok good at 15 where absolut hand strength matters more. and another point: if we limp we dont need that many limp call a jam holdings to cover the weaker limp fold jam holdings as with a minraise. A hand like QT is fine to mr call below 15BB and it covers hands which minraise fold? C: a negative point is: we lose kind of initiative although not too much, because one can mix strong hands in limping and people know that.Witha hand like QT we will often flop if not a pair, two overs to the capped range of our oppponent few Kxs and no Axs. if we then get a backdoor flush draw(my no1 draw) and a gutshot or whatever we can easily cbet call at 15BB without beeing too worried.ok i tried it but my thoughts getting confused now, i stop here for someone else to do it better. ok hopefully i found some aspects .. gl okay i edited some thought and hopefully now everybody reading this is confused :)I did that on purpose, soon nobody will know what to do and will level themselves and i reach final stage of my final plan to play abc straightforward game and take over all lobbies from 50-1000$ ;)
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